to ask how you deal with foreign names?

[pocpocpoc]

I am going through a bit of soul searching and just trying to understand...

I have a foreign name, which is very short and pretty meaningful to me (I guess all names are meaningful to their owners). I've been with my English DH for over 20 years and no one in his family can get my name right.

Imagine my name was Bjork. The Christmas cards would say: Bork, Biork, Bok, Barca, Orca, Karma, Beth, some random Icelandic-sounding words. Not Bjork. To make it worse, same people use different spellings at different times.

My name is not Bjork, but it is only five letters. It is very easy to check on FB, Whatsapp, LinkedIn, even google. Obviously, I always sign with my correct name when I message them.

To prevent potential lines of questioning, I don't know any of them to be dyslexic, most of them are at least degree educated, most of them work in the types of organisations, where unconscious bias training is compulsory. Many speak foreign (European) languages, they have European cousins and most are reasonably well-travelled. Also, I have observed the family taking spellings very seriously when it comes to Western names. For instance, when DS was born and we gave him a Western name, there was a lot of interest in what specific spelling we would use for him.

We challenged a couple of friendlier relatives. One said that they just find it very very difficult to 'comprehend' my name, because it is so foreign and exotic and just 'doesn't roll off the tongue'. Another one said it was DH's fault for not teaching my name to them properly - DH tried in earlier years and then gave up. Apparently, they didn't realise I took it so personally. Recently, I messaged back a person who yet again got my name wrong giving them the right spelling- I received no response.

Can someone please give me an insight? What do you think is going on? Do you find foreign names difficult? Is it a huge drag to check and potentially copy a spelling of a foreign name? Would you just use a random combination of letters or random foreign-sounding words to address someone?

I want to understand before I judge.

AIBU to find this upsetting?

To think about it, their names are just as random and foreign to me and I learnt them all together with their unique spellings.

Well exactly! Unfortunately I think this kind of attitude is probably more prevalent in native English speakers, because lots of us seem to just consider English to be 'normal' or the default language. And everything else us weird, unpronounceable and therefore far too much effort to bother trying to get right.

@reluctantbrit

My name is French and also a not that usual French name so even if people speak French or have visited France a lot may not have come across it. In handwriting it can often seen as a totally different spelling.

It is also difficult to say if I am male or female. I lost count of letter and emails address to Mr. to me. Americans also pronounce it in a way I don’t particular like.

I don’t like it but I gave up, I do blame my mum for choosing a name even if I understand her reasoning. I think I just grew a very thick skin.

We took particular care naming DD to avoid all these issues.

I can't blame my family. I have the easiest, most common name in my culture. I never expected it to be a problem here. To be fair, I correspond with a large number of people from different cultures and it is extremely rare for anyone to get my name wrong. I would say 1 out of 300 emails I receive my name is spelt wrongly - and even then it often still makes sense, just an alternative spelling.

I find that it is only my English family that struggle. To think about it, plenty of English people (mums at school, people I met through my hobbies, colleagues, gym buddies) get my name right, so I guess it is not an "English" thing actually.

[quote pocpocpoc]@Nengineer

Cripes I think the use of discrimination is a bit loose. Yes thoughtless, obviously irritating but discrimination means me deliberately using the wrong name at a meeting because surely every Muslim is called M. This is why the far left and far right are winning FFSbiscuit

I am trying to not reveal too much here, but what would you say if I told you I am Muslim and 'random foreign words' that are used are actually random Arabic words? Does it change your assessment?

Not trying to stir shit here, really trying to understand.[/quote]
Living in a truly inclusive and respectful Islamic state, I stand by my comment. I would never leave here if I had a choice. It's not a badge, it doesn't trump your opinion.

Tbh I find it hard enough to remember familiar names so ‘foreign’ names are even harder to get right

It's just bloody rude.

My family is from central Europe and my surname is similar, but not the same as, a reasonably common English surname. Similar, but different and not difficult to spell, six letters. I enunciate it clearly and spell it clearly. It is always 'corrected'. I just 'correct' it back, politely but firmly 😬I have been asked if I was sure how that was how it was spelled (!), have very recently had someone eye-roll at me when I've spelled my name and was also recently asked where I come from. I said Clapham.

I am not rushing to call this racist, because one of them explained that it is something unsurmountable for them to 'get their head around' my name

Well it sounds racist to me - a point being made, and a refusal to show respect.
Everybody can 'get their head around' a name eventually. What do they call foreign countries (just rename them Britain? unfamiliar districts in the UK (just call them all Manchester?) politicians/celebs/music stars from other countries just call them all Smith?
It's ridiculous - they are more than rude, more than dense, more that obnoxious - they are clearly engaged in exclusive behaviour, ridiculing your name and minimising your place in the family. They sound out and out racist to me.

My surname is a local slang word for Bedouin and it always makes the police laugh that they think I am part of that clan. No offence meant or taken

@Nengineer

I didn't understand your last comment. Is it or is it not racist to use a random Arabic word when addressing me, because I am Muslim?

I have a slightly uncommon English name. The incorrect spelling is used by friends, co-workers and even my ex DH sometimes got it wrong.

FIL & his wife regularly call me by the wrong name, wrong name on cards, wrong name on personalised pen. I've known them over 20 years and we see or speak to them every couple of months.

People spell my name by its other variant all the time and it's English. It's rude & lazy.

@StoneofDestiny

I am not rushing to call this racist, because one of them explained that it is something unsurmountable for them to 'get their head around' my name

Well it sounds racist to me - a point being made, and a refusal to show respect.
Everybody can 'get their head around' a name eventually. What do they call foreign countries (just rename them Britain? unfamiliar districts in the UK (just call them all Manchester?) politicians/celebs/music stars from other countries just call them all Smith?
It's ridiculous - they are more than rude, more than dense, more that obnoxious - they are clearly engaged in exclusive behaviour, ridiculing your name and minimising your place in the family. They sound out and out racist to me.

Thank you for your opinion.

It sounds racist to me too, but then I was raised bilingual and I did learn English and a couple of other languages, every time taking time to learn most common names in that language, so I am trying to give a benefit of doubt to someone who perhaps did not have such a background.

But I see your point: I bet they memorised names of celebrities, exotic holiday destinations and their car brands. Sadly, in my case it must a complete lack of motivation

I think there's a few things going on.

A lot of people aren't nearly as literate as you think they are and may find spelling/reading a bit of a struggle - they may gloss over the unfamiliar and not notice when something is misspelled. They're functionally fine, but bad with spelling (think people who write "chester draws" and similar).

A lot of people haven't got great memories for detail. You've told them it's spelled/pronounced this way but it doesn't sink in.

A lot of people don't really care.

I've got a difficult to spell/pronounce name for English speakers (it's not difficult to spell or pronounce once you know, but it's a stretch to expect someone to get it right if they've not come across it before).

Even people I know well, who I know are genuinely nice people who would go a long way to be kind/not make others feel uncomfortable/who are considerate of others at all time get the spelling wrong sometimes. They spell it wrong, even when it's in reply to an email where my signature appears. They spell it right in one part of a message and then wrong in another part. I think these are number 2 people.

It's a bit annoying, but it's honestly not personal*

*Some times it's personal but I've noticed that the twats that do that are normally mispronouncing your name, not misspelling it.

OH has a non English given name, 4 letters long, but one gets used twice. Pronounced just like it spells. People spell it all kinds of ways, extra letters or a similarly named animal. People spell it like you couldn't possibly say it like that but no one has trouble pronouncing it and it sounds like an English name.

That said mine is a very common British surname and people come up with fucking endless variations.

I don't remember OH's extended families names very easily. I'm generally not good at names full stop but I think that some of the names are very long, quite similar and don't always have a short form also because sometimes they contain relationship information, different members of the family call them different things and this adds a difficulty. Has been 25 years though ffs

My name is a traditional English one as is my surname.

Both are constantly misspelt.

I completely understand. My name is also foreign and hard to spell, it is not hard to pronounce though. Although it is constantly pronounced wrong. Usually missing the last letter off. I correct at first but after 6/7 times I usually just give up, I know I should correct more but it's so repetitive

I have an English sounding name with more than one way to spell it, and my MIL, BIL.SIL, FIL have consistently mis-spelled and mispronounced it for nearly 20 years. You can't argue with stupid...

it must be a complete lack of motivation

Yes - you are not important enough to them to not offend. They are underscoring your difference to them by the cheapest shot they can. They sound grotesque specimens of humanity.

It's not misspelling!

This has gone on for 20 plus years!

Ime some people struggle with unfamiliar names. I've lived in several different countries and especially in ones with different alphabets there's always a few who get my name wrong. Even people I worked with so saw every day have got my name wrong. Mostly pronouncing it in a way that's vaguely consistent with their own pronunciation rules but sometimes in ways that I couldn't work out how they'd got there.

I did notice that once someone had got it wrong a few times they were unlikely to ever get it right. Like, in their head, that's now what you're called and it's difficult for them to undo that initial wiring, even if it's wrong.

So I'd say once it's gone on for a while - which it sounds like this has for you with some of these people - there's not a lot you can do about it.

I have a common english name with multiple spellings and I live in a non english speaking country which also uses several different spellings of basically the same name. The biggest difference is englush spellings (generally) have a th where the local spellings use only a t.
Randomly a lot of people remember the h but add it after a c to make a ch rather than a th. When DHs 97 year old gran does it i think it is lovely that she remembered and tried, when the (intensely irritating ) deputy head at the kids school decides to change the spelling of my name in the school records from the correct spelling to the ch spelling i get p*ssed off...
I try hard to get peoples names correct both in spelling and in pronounciation, spelling is often easier because i can check, some subtilties of pronounciation in the local language i am still a bit dodgy with even though im basically fluent.

My name is one with multiple English spelling and people at work regularly reply with wrong one on emails where the right one is right there in my signature. You’d think family would make a bit more effort though as it’s surely not that hard to write it down somewhere and copy it each time they write to you

[quote pocpocpoc]@Nengineer

I didn't understand your last comment. Is it or is it not racist to use a random Arabic word when addressing me, because I am Muslim?[/quote]
Depends on the intention. If you are a British Muslim, you may need to allow for culture and even humor if you choose to live in Muslim countries.

Lots of tales of mis spelled and mispronounced names. Seems to be a lot of people who struggle with names in their native language. Throw in an Anglicised version of a name that uses a different alphabet and they've got no chance.

I used to work with a guy called Owen. We were on a two year contract in Eastern Europe. Every day, for the whole of that two years, he got called Oven. Not by absolutely everyone he met - some people called him Ven - but by most people. He got kind of conditioned after a while and just answered to it.

Pure laziness and lack of manners. Some people will twist themselves in knots to make excuses why they can’t say, read, and/or write a name correctly.

There’s no reason they can’t WRITE your name properly when it is clearly right in front of them or they are able to look on social media platforms and see it.

My mother has this issue with her maiden name. It is only three letters and people assume SHE spells it wrong. No, it is how her surname is spelled. She sends back anything with the wrong surname. If they ask, she reminds them that is not her name and that her own job is to be able to read and write client information down and enter it in various systems as it is written and if they can’t be able to write a three letter surname down how it’s been written by her, they need a new job.

YANBU.