to ask how you deal with foreign names?

[pocpocpoc]

I am going through a bit of soul searching and just trying to understand...

I have a foreign name, which is very short and pretty meaningful to me (I guess all names are meaningful to their owners). I've been with my English DH for over 20 years and no one in his family can get my name right.

Imagine my name was Bjork. The Christmas cards would say: Bork, Biork, Bok, Barca, Orca, Karma, Beth, some random Icelandic-sounding words. Not Bjork. To make it worse, same people use different spellings at different times.

My name is not Bjork, but it is only five letters. It is very easy to check on FB, Whatsapp, LinkedIn, even google. Obviously, I always sign with my correct name when I message them.

To prevent potential lines of questioning, I don't know any of them to be dyslexic, most of them are at least degree educated, most of them work in the types of organisations, where unconscious bias training is compulsory. Many speak foreign (European) languages, they have European cousins and most are reasonably well-travelled. Also, I have observed the family taking spellings very seriously when it comes to Western names. For instance, when DS was born and we gave him a Western name, there was a lot of interest in what specific spelling we would use for him.

We challenged a couple of friendlier relatives. One said that they just find it very very difficult to 'comprehend' my name, because it is so foreign and exotic and just 'doesn't roll off the tongue'. Another one said it was DH's fault for not teaching my name to them properly - DH tried in earlier years and then gave up. Apparently, they didn't realise I took it so personally. Recently, I messaged back a person who yet again got my name wrong giving them the right spelling- I received no response.

Can someone please give me an insight? What do you think is going on? Do you find foreign names difficult? Is it a huge drag to check and potentially copy a spelling of a foreign name? Would you just use a random combination of letters or random foreign-sounding words to address someone?

I want to understand before I judge.

AIBU to find this upsetting?

Judge them, it’s rude and it’s a form of discrimination because they are treating you differently (not bothering to learn your name) because of your nationality/race.

Their excuses are shite by the way, your name has one character more than a PIN number and six fewer than a mobile number and I bet they remember those.

I sometimes struggle with how to pronounce names, I sometimes have to hear the name a few times before I get the hang of it but I will always put the effort in to learn it as quickly as possible.

I have an English name that is easy and straightforward, it has a couple of different spellings but the pronunciation is the same. However people often call me a name that is different but similar spelling. It's the same letters but in a different order, and is absolutely a different name. It drives me mad. My own grandparents wrote the wrong name in my Christmas card 2 years ago. I get emails with it spelt wrong, despite the fact my email address is literally my name. My name isn't trendy, or different. It's a bog standard name that used to be popular, but isn't now. It actually really makes me very angry. I have considered changing my name before because it annoys me so much.

I have a really common name; it can be spelled in two ways. I am always being asked how it is spelled when I give my name and the same thing happens with my surname which is a very common Irish/Scottish name. and, yes, I have received letters with both spelt wrongly!

@StoneofDestiny

What happens to me is that instead of Mary/Mariam/Maryam they wold call me Karry, Marsha, Mark or Mailmen

Then that's not misspelling, that is just obnoxious behaviour. Is their behaviour towards you like that in other ways/circumstances. Are they racist - making some perverse point that you don't 'fit in' to their narrow minds?

I am pretty sure they are. I am just trying to separate "cultural" misunderstandings from targeted racist digs.

My original name is written in a different alphabet, therefore I don't really get hung up on how it is spelt in English - occasionally at work people will get one particular letter wrong, but I don't mind at all, as long as you can still read my name.

Where I find it difficult is when rather than using an alternative spelling they just use a completely different name/word/letter combination.

I am not rushing to call this racist, because one of them explained that it is something unsurmountable for them to 'get their head around' my name. I am trying to give them a benefit of doubt and see if anyone here can explain it to me.

I am Asian. My name has 3 syllables, not hard to say. I was at an event with another Asian who said her also 3 syllable name, then when people looked baffled, immediately said "Just call me K." Then the same people asked "Can we call you P". I said no. Probably came across as rude.

Long story short, I expect people to try to pronounce my name properly and not call me by a shorter version or an initiial, no matter how unfamiliar it is to them.

I get this with my name that is very common in UK, I get people spelling it in all kinds of ways. I'd be annoyed if they wrote a random name though, that would be like they don't know what I'm called.

@Procrastatron

Judge them, it’s rude and it’s a form of discrimination because they are treating you differently (not bothering to learn your name) because of your nationality/race.

Their excuses are shite by the way, your name has one character more than a PIN number and six fewer than a mobile number and I bet they remember those.

Cripes I think the use of discrimination is a bit loose. Yes thoughtless, obviously irritating but discrimination means me deliberately using the wrong name at a meeting because surely every Muslim is called M. This is why the far left and far right are winning FFS

It's laziness OP and it's easy enough to check. If someone has an English names with several options like Katherine/Kathryn/Catherine I will double-check how the person spells it if I can't remember. And I write down eg people's childrens' names so I can write them correctly the following year.

I remember getting quite annoyed with my mum when I had a German friend to stay with an unusual but eminently pronounceable (Scandinavian) name. My mum insisted on shortening it and when we saw friends of hers she said "oh it's easier for them". It really wasn't and I found it quite embarrassing but my friend was more forgiving than I would have been.

It's also annoying with the Olympics when the commentators pronounce names wrong. They get all the info in advance and get told how to pronounce the names.

I also got a bit annoyed with a colleague at work the other day - we were dealing with a Finnish lady whose name is Milja with the j pronounced like a y. He kept saying Meeha.

OP your DH should tell his relatives to stop being so f-in lazy and call you by your name - people can learn 5 letters! I'd be annoyed with him for not sorting it out.

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

I'm Hungarian. my name in short form is 4 letters. it's like "Kati" instead of the English "Katie".

you'd think that's easy to remember, especially after 20 odd years.
but nope. FOUR letters are impossible to remember.
it doesn't matter that everything that I order has my name stated as "Kati" either, people are incapable of copying 4 letters correctly when writing name & address on a package!🙄🤷‍♀️

Mail & christmas cards are a rich source of entertainment so, for my own amusement, I have kept versions of my name as written by others.
I call it the Hallmark of Shame and my favourite one is the blank space where my name should be, so the inside of the card is addressed to:
Ben , and children

🤣

I wish I did this! it would have been fun! You have a much better sense of humour than me!

Also imagine 20 years time when adults are called DaeisieeMay and Konnorrr. Many names will be either spellable or the person able to fathom the pronounciation from the 'different' spelling. I know a meisiee Maisie ffs

I have one of those English names which is easy to misspell in a minor way - think Ann vs Anne.

So, if strangers on one-off emails put Ann and miss the e off then I don't care at all.

But there's one friend of the family who does it consistently and in emails where my email address has the right spelling or in return to an email where I had signed my name the correct way.

I suspect she does it on purpose or perhaps she's that careless with all her correspondence - I find it rude. I always double check the spelling of people's names - Betty is not the same as Bettie, Lizzie is not the same as Lissie etc.

I can imagine how upsetting and annoying it is that people are not even getting close the right spelling of your name - it's very lazy and not very kind. You'd think you'd try extra hard at Christmas to get the name of your relative right - season of goodwill and all!

For those people you have already asked several times and they've started making excuses about how hard it is - start addressing their cards to random names too. Do it every time they do it to you.

But I'm petty and passive aggressive like that.

@Nengineer

Cripes I think the use of discrimination is a bit loose. Yes thoughtless, obviously irritating but discrimination means me deliberately using the wrong name at a meeting because surely every Muslim is called M. This is why the far left and far right are winning FFSbiscuit

I am trying to not reveal too much here, but what would you say if I told you I am Muslim and 'random foreign words' that are used are actually random Arabic words? Does it change your assessment?

Not trying to stir shit here, really trying to understand.

It’s ignorance and arrogance.

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

I'm Hungarian. my name in short form is 4 letters. it's like "Kati" instead of the English "Katie".

you'd think that's easy to remember, especially after 20 odd years.
but nope. FOUR letters are impossible to remember.
it doesn't matter that everything that I order has my name stated as "Kati" either, people are incapable of copying 4 letters correctly when writing name & address on a package!🙄🤷‍♀️

Mail & christmas cards are a rich source of entertainment so, for my own amusement, I have kept versions of my name as written by others.
I call it the Hallmark of Shame and my favourite one is the blank space where my name should be, so the inside of the card is addressed to:
Ben , and children

🤣

I use the best mess ups as usernames for my various accounts like netflix and prime 😁 Did the same for DH. I like you Hallmark of Shame😂

I understand Op, I’m Scandinavian with a surname my nan made up back in the day when that was still allowed. Even Swedish people have to use their brains to spell it - I stand no hope in hell here. ;) But it doesn’t offend me, I just laugh it off.

YANBU. They are rude, thoughtless and lazy for not making the effort to get it right.

You need to spell all their names wrong. Repeatedly. With variations every time you write it.

^ This. Although actually, I don't think I could bring myself to do that, as I'm a stickler for spelling.

Sympathies, OP, it must drive you nuts. I have a name that can be spelled two ways, but one of them is the male version which people often use for me although I'm female. It's annoying, but not as annoying as your situation!

Or I'd get a packet of small stickers and print my name on each one and send a sheet of the stickers to each offender with a note to say I've decided to make it easier for you as after two decades you still seem incapable of getting my name right.

@cabingirl

Or I'd get a packet of small stickers and print my name on each one and send a sheet of the stickers to each offender with a note to say I've decided to make it easier for you as after two decades you still seem incapable of getting my name right.

I can recommend Instantprint for that😂

I like you

Your name only has 5 letters? How difficult can it be for them to pick that up?! Even if it was a random combination of five symbols that made a confusing sound, if you were my friend/family member I would make the effort to learn it correctly. They all sound lazy and weird.

If it helps I have an extremely English name which I go by a shortening of, and this shortening is rarely if ever spelt right on cards. I let it go now.

I used to get this. Soi spelt their names wrong too. Every time. (I am Queen Petty from the Land of the Petty People, though)

Some them started paying attention and spelling my name correctly. So I do too. Others carry on so do I. 1 never spoke to me again and so - meh. Didn't she'd any tears about it when they died.

It is exceedingly rude

@cabingirl

I have one of those English names which is easy to misspell in a minor way - think Ann vs Anne.

So, if strangers on one-off emails put Ann and miss the e off then I don't care at all.

But there's one friend of the family who does it consistently and in emails where my email address has the right spelling or in return to an email where I had signed my name the correct way.

I suspect she does it on purpose or perhaps she's that careless with all her correspondence - I find it rude. I always double check the spelling of people's names - Betty is not the same as Bettie, Lizzie is not the same as Lissie etc.

I can imagine how upsetting and annoying it is that people are not even getting close the right spelling of your name - it's very lazy and not very kind. You'd think you'd try extra hard at Christmas to get the name of your relative right - season of goodwill and all!

For those people you have already asked several times and they've started making excuses about how hard it is - start addressing their cards to random names too. Do it every time they do it to you.

But I'm petty and passive aggressive like that.

To think about it, their names are just as random and foreign to me and I learnt them all together with their unique spellings. I think I know all of their middle names too... And they can be very particular how their DCs' names have 'classy' spellings.

But me - no. I think they were quite surprised when they were told that I get upset when they use the wrong name for me, I don't think they realise I can be attached to my name and that it is actually meaningful to me. Why random combination of letters would not do?

My name is French and also a not that usual French name so even if people speak French or have visited France a lot may not have come across it. In handwriting it can often seen as a totally different spelling.

It is also difficult to say if I am male or female. I lost count of letter and emails address to Mr. to me. Americans also pronounce it in a way I don’t particular like.

I don’t like it but I gave up, I do blame my mum for choosing a name even if I understand her reasoning. I think I just grew a very thick skin.

We took particular care naming DD to avoid all these issues.

I can understand some may need more practice at certain names, but especially in writing - even more in texts and emails where we can literally copy-paste a name - it's ridiculously disrespectful to just put in random words and names.

I always check written correspodance and use the name there, even if on the rare occasion someone changes it, I'll start the next one with however they signed off the last one (once had a guy named Edward who used a different variant every time). I don't find it a drag, as I'll likely refer back to the letters or emails from before anyways.

Most annoying for me are the ones that seem to just add in a bunch of letters - random vowels and h usually - or they'll use my actual name until they see it written down, and then use a vaguely similar looking English name that sounds nothing like my name.

EBearhug I've had the same as your story of Antoine so many times that I include a pronunciation guide on my zoom and my Microsoft Teams avatar is a pronunciation guide of the two syllables my 4 letter name.

People still call me an entirely different name (usually starting with the same first letter, but goes wild from there), but it seems to cut down to usually just the obnoxious people.

To think about it, their names are just as random and foreign to me and I learnt them all together with their unique spellings.

This is very often missed out in these discussions!