to ask how you deal with foreign names?

[pocpocpoc]

I am going through a bit of soul searching and just trying to understand...

I have a foreign name, which is very short and pretty meaningful to me (I guess all names are meaningful to their owners). I've been with my English DH for over 20 years and no one in his family can get my name right.

Imagine my name was Bjork. The Christmas cards would say: Bork, Biork, Bok, Barca, Orca, Karma, Beth, some random Icelandic-sounding words. Not Bjork. To make it worse, same people use different spellings at different times.

My name is not Bjork, but it is only five letters. It is very easy to check on FB, Whatsapp, LinkedIn, even google. Obviously, I always sign with my correct name when I message them.

To prevent potential lines of questioning, I don't know any of them to be dyslexic, most of them are at least degree educated, most of them work in the types of organisations, where unconscious bias training is compulsory. Many speak foreign (European) languages, they have European cousins and most are reasonably well-travelled. Also, I have observed the family taking spellings very seriously when it comes to Western names. For instance, when DS was born and we gave him a Western name, there was a lot of interest in what specific spelling we would use for him.

We challenged a couple of friendlier relatives. One said that they just find it very very difficult to 'comprehend' my name, because it is so foreign and exotic and just 'doesn't roll off the tongue'. Another one said it was DH's fault for not teaching my name to them properly - DH tried in earlier years and then gave up. Apparently, they didn't realise I took it so personally. Recently, I messaged back a person who yet again got my name wrong giving them the right spelling- I received no response.

Can someone please give me an insight? What do you think is going on? Do you find foreign names difficult? Is it a huge drag to check and potentially copy a spelling of a foreign name? Would you just use a random combination of letters or random foreign-sounding words to address someone?

I want to understand before I judge.

AIBU to find this upsetting?

Unless they all have some form of speech impediment, then they are perfectly capable of saying your name correctly. For whatever reason, they're not bothering. There is no excuse at all for writing it incorrectly multiple times. If they're not racists, they are at least impolite twats.

I just don't think that, as a nation, we are good with foreign languages at all, including names. I have a handful of foreign friends whose names I have made a real effort to learn. However the trouble is that, there will always be a chance that I will have confused myself, convinced myself that I have now 'nailed it' only to realise that I've got it wrong again. I'm just very easily confused and have a terrible memory since having kids. Irish names are the worst for me. I never know where toatart.

That’s ridiculous! A five letter name is easy enough to learn.

My cousins boyfriend was called Neale. In the first Christmas card I sent, I spelt it Neil, as I hadn’t seen it written down and every Neil I’ve met is spelt that way. In her return card she spelt it Neale, so I took note, snd spelt it like that in future. Surely that’s the case for everyone?

You asked how we deal with names we have trouble remembering correctly. What I do is I carefully copy them into my electronic contacts list and then if I think I'll get them so wrong that I won't even be able to search, I add a "nickname" that I would be able to search for (in your case, "x's DW" or whatever).

Then on the rare occasions when I need to write their name, I LOOK IT UP.

If this isn't rare but quite common because it's a new close colleague, I learn it soon enough. There are one or two that I don't write so often that I still have to check the spelling of despite having known them for years. So I do.

I suggest your DH calls round these relatives again and if they seriously say "how can I remember that?" then he explains to them how to do this. It's pathetic they haven't worked it out for themselves but maybe the explanation will hel them realise this.

Another one saying I think your are reading too much into it, my name is an English name that isn’t common but also isn’t unheard of and people always spell it wrong even my own brother same for my daughter my mum refuses to spell it right (it can be spelled 2 ways) but she always uses the other way despite being corrected

I can understand people having difficulty with the spelling, and forgetting, I often have to keep double checking the spelling of non English names at work. However, I do keep checking, and you are talking about family, who should care enough to have it written down for reference. Your husband needs to make a big deal out of this. I would continue politely modelling the correct spelling and pronunciation for now, whilst your husband makes it clear that the lack of care and respect upsets you both. If it still continues, you are then in a good place to get very firm with them yourself. Be prepared for them to band together and say you are the unreasonable one - your husband needs to be persistent and not give up fgs. I would, however, probably ignore ongoing "mistakes" from the VERY elderly.

[quote pocpocpoc]@slipperssausage
Imagine he was Indian and people called him Garam Massala instead.[/quote]
The best example ever of a mumsnetter digging deep to find offence in nothing. You need to get out more 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I’d be annoyed and hurt too. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with it being foreign as there are plenty of British names with multiple spellings. It sounds as though they just can’t be bothered to remember the preferred spelling which is sad.

My maiden name was Dutch ( no Dutch in the family!) people had trouble with it. Parents used to say can you pronounce Tchaikovsky? Everyone always could, then make more effort with our name.
Have seen the same phrase used by an actress a couple of years back.
It’s laziness and arrogance. Downright bloody rude.

Honestly? I'm pretty immune to it now. When DH's family spell it wrong I tell him to remind them. I once got a card to DH and Margaret (not anything close). My surname is John and at work I get so many dear John emails

Fwiw I find it easier to remember foreign names as they stick in your head more easily than trying to remember if someone is called Sarah/Clare/Amy

They're not going to change. Just mentally put the embarrassment back on them.

"Oh, how embarrassing for X. She still can't spell!"

I have a cousin I'm only in Christmas card contact with - and STILL have to check the spelling of his wife's name every single year!

I don't encounter enough "foreign" names to know how I react.
Presumably if I rampantly mis-spell'd I wouldn't notice I did that.

I have several colleagues with vowel-heavy many-syllable African names*, they typically use a short nickname or their English middle name for which I am grateful.

(* like Agwuegbo, Obiakaeze, Olanrewaju)

I actually have a short English name with variant spelling, imagine Serah for Sarah. People spell it in a million ways, invent nicknames, shorten, diversify the pronunciation, etc -- I don't mind any of this and only correct if it's officialdom or a work document (emails don't count as documents).

If it was just people who didn't really know you/meeting you for the first time then I would say its not a big deal, but when its your DH's family who have known you for many years, it is a big deal if they are not even trying. Its one thing if they try but just can't manage it, like people with my mum's name, but if they are lingual people, who put the effort into other names, then they ought to do better with yours.

I'm used to people pronouncing my last name wrong where I live now (English name, live abroad and they pronounce it according to pronunciation rules of their language which turns a one syllable name into two syllables) and its fine, that only comes up in situations like doctors office or suchlike, sometimes I correct them, sometimes I don't bother and just introduce myself in the same way, but everyone who actually knows me knows the right way to say it. First name is pronounced a bit off too but so slightly that I don't care to correct it.

Some people aren't really getting what op is on about. I am actually quite confused about some posts totally minimising this and even laughing at it.
To say it frankly. Foreign or not foreign, if you can't spell family member's name right, and even worse, actually use the actual name instead of different names or word, you are either someone who needs to have a guardian and shouldn't be signing contracts etc., or you are a cunt.

Tb absolutely honest, i think similar about people who keep getting names wrong when it's right there, in the email, top and bottom. Hos the heck do these people keep their jobs with this lack of attention to something as important as name....

@SchrodingersImmigrant. I agree. Some people aren't really getting it.

The OP has a name. It's part of her identity. People are calling her something which is not her name. Which is not even an approximation of her name. It's not acceptable.

My DP has a simple, 4 letter Eastern European name. Almost everyone pronounces it wrong & last week in EuroCarParts when he went to pick up an order the assistant said 'that's a stupid name' bloody cheek!

Don't assume it is done to be vindictive or disrespectful.

Some people really struggle with names. I make mistakes both when writing and speaking. I have problems with facial recognition, and muddle similar sounding names. My spelling is also poorer than average (less evident thanks to spell checkers).

This combination means:-

I sometimes ignore people I know (because I don't recognise them)

I regularly forget people's names

I can't recall faces when someone tells me to go speak to... Joe or Paul or whoever

I sometimes speak to people thinking they are someone else.

I sometimes spell people's names wrong.

If someone changes their hairstyle, moves desks or office, wears a face mask (thanks COVID !), or I see them out of context I am even worse.

Certain names are far harder for me than others. So it tends to be the same people I run into problems with time and time again.

I think its ignorant and lazy and a racist micro aggression. I ALWAYS ask people if I have pronounced their name correctly, I work in a very multicultural city in A&E and work alongside a lot of people with "non british" names. I am forever corecting people when they pronounce the names of people incorrectly who they have been working with for months even years. Sorry you have to go through this.

What do I do about foreign names? I ask people how to pronounce their name, once, and then I try my best to pronounce it correctly. Spelling is a non-issue if I have seen it written down, but if not, I would ask once and ensure that I remember it.

It isn't actually difficult, it's because people can't be arsed and they don't have enough respect to make the effort. My DH has a foreign name and it constantly gets mangled. It's strange how many people can type it correctly when they write his email address but then can't spell it right in the text of his email. It pisses him off no end. Frankly, it would be unforgivable if my family failed to get his name right after all the years that we have been together, and I would be telling them in no uncertain terms that they needed to get it right. My family are decent people, though, and they don't need to be told.

Bit late to this thread but yes it is racist. They are saying your five letters is too 'other' for them to bother making the effort of looking it up, or learning it. Even if its tricky for them to learn they could, after you pointing out they got it wrong, check what email address or facebook post they are responding to. It's a massive lack of respect not to. To all those saying they don't mind, I'm sure if you lived abroad and got called 'roastbeef' or 'Brian' just because its english when you're actually called Jane, it would grate after a while and youd think people were prejudiced or stupid. As others have said, people manage to learn to pronounce and spell the names of tennis players and footballers etc. When its something they are interested in, suddenly they can learn a different pronunciation and spelling

OP maybe start doing it back to them, that might be the only way to highlight how horrible they're being. Or get the spellings of their children mixed up with the 'less classy' versions and act all surprised and shocked when they get offended.

I have a very boring name you can't get wrong, so I haven't been in your position. However, I always ask people if I'm not sure how to spell their name and I ask them how to pronounce it. I think it's pretty rude for people to spell/pronounce someone's name wrong, especially if they've already been told.

"Don't assume it is done to be vindictive or disrespectful.

Some people really struggle with names. I make mistakes both when writing and speaking. I have problems with facial recognition, and muddle similar sounding names. My spelling is also poorer than average (less evident thanks to spell checkers).

This combination means:-

I sometimes ignore people I know (because I don't recognise them)

I regularly forget people's names

I can't recall faces when someone tells me to go speak to... Joe or Paul or whoever

I sometimes speak to people thinking they are someone else.

I sometimes spell people's names wrong.

If someone changes their hairstyle, moves desks or office, wears a face mask (thanks COVID !), or I see them out of context I am even worse.

Certain names are far harder for me than others. So it tends to be the same people I run into problems with time and time again"

In your case it wouldnt be disrespectful as its something you genuinely struggle with across race and cultures.

In the OP's case, it sounds from what they've written that the offenders take great care to make sure the spelling is correct in their own culture but wont even copy and paste the OPs name from an email when responding to an email because its 'harder' being in another culture. So treating her differently because of where she is from. Which is racist

You are not being unreasonable - my sister is called Clare (not Claire) and would be annoyed if her own extended family couldn’t get it right - it’s just common courtesy.

If you have genuine difficulties it doesn't matter how many times you check, it doesn't matter what ethnicity the person is, it doesn't matter how much I concentrate, it doesn't even matter if I have known you 1 year or 15 years, Or if I spend 8 hours a day sitting next to you, I still make mistakes.