to ask how you deal with foreign names?

[pocpocpoc]

I am going through a bit of soul searching and just trying to understand...

I have a foreign name, which is very short and pretty meaningful to me (I guess all names are meaningful to their owners). I've been with my English DH for over 20 years and no one in his family can get my name right.

Imagine my name was Bjork. The Christmas cards would say: Bork, Biork, Bok, Barca, Orca, Karma, Beth, some random Icelandic-sounding words. Not Bjork. To make it worse, same people use different spellings at different times.

My name is not Bjork, but it is only five letters. It is very easy to check on FB, Whatsapp, LinkedIn, even google. Obviously, I always sign with my correct name when I message them.

To prevent potential lines of questioning, I don't know any of them to be dyslexic, most of them are at least degree educated, most of them work in the types of organisations, where unconscious bias training is compulsory. Many speak foreign (European) languages, they have European cousins and most are reasonably well-travelled. Also, I have observed the family taking spellings very seriously when it comes to Western names. For instance, when DS was born and we gave him a Western name, there was a lot of interest in what specific spelling we would use for him.

We challenged a couple of friendlier relatives. One said that they just find it very very difficult to 'comprehend' my name, because it is so foreign and exotic and just 'doesn't roll off the tongue'. Another one said it was DH's fault for not teaching my name to them properly - DH tried in earlier years and then gave up. Apparently, they didn't realise I took it so personally. Recently, I messaged back a person who yet again got my name wrong giving them the right spelling- I received no response.

Can someone please give me an insight? What do you think is going on? Do you find foreign names difficult? Is it a huge drag to check and potentially copy a spelling of a foreign name? Would you just use a random combination of letters or random foreign-sounding words to address someone?

I want to understand before I judge.

AIBU to find this upsetting?

People are hopeless at spelling. Both my children have easy to spell names. For one there is only one way of spelling I've ever seen. Still get relatives sticking and a rather than an e.
Daughter's name can be spelled a couple of ways but I went for the more local version. Hasn't helped!
My name is easy, so you'd think, but rarely is spelled correctly

@PlasticEgg it provides DH with unlimited number of laughs... 😂 He can't say pills though. It always comes up as bills. So we are even.
We, however, are still strict on written versions, because there is just no excuse there.

[quote JingsMahBucket]**@pocpocpoc
I am not rushing to call this racist, because one of them explained that it is something unsurmountable for them to 'get their head around' my name. I am trying to give them a benefit of doubt and see if anyone here can explain it to me.

It’s been going on for 20 damn years. You need to face the fact that your husband’s family is racist and they’re deliberately doing this to you. I guarantee you some of them are laughing behind your back with other family members or their friends about how they can “never remember that one girl’s name”.

You’ve taken this for too long. Start fucking up their names on the regular and see how they react. That’ll tell you all you need to know and what you already know in your heart is true. Your husband needs to start screwing up their names too. If/when they counter, “We’re family. Why are you messing up our names so badly?” then can respond, “@pocpocpoc is family too and you’ve been screwing up her name for 20 years!”[/quote]
We have very minimal contact with the family TBH based on other, more overtly racists, situations.

I have decided to confront some of them and just trying to understand for myself what was racist and what was just unfortunate.

It is also hard to think that literally all of them were racist to me, so I am trying to find a nicer explanation for some of their behaviours.

@pocpocpoc
Sadly, in my case it must a complete lack of motivation

Don’t get it twisted. This is NOT a lack of motivation on their part. They have been VERY motivated and committed to deliberately calling you the wrong name for 20 years. It is literally a group effort by how many people, 10 — 20 of them? Sis, they are very motivated about being racist and islamophobic toward you.

Stop giving them excuses and passes for their obviously racist behaviour.

I think they are racist or xenophobic. Especially given they've taken the time to be careful about their own children's names being spelled correctly and checked your child's European name spelling. And after 20 years, they should put it up on the damn fridge to refer to if they are that forgetful.

Whatever about getting a letter wrong, or pronouncing it slightly wrongly inserting random words that sound foreign but ^aren't actually your language as a substitute is really just disgraceful and derogatory and I cannot understand why your husband hasn't had a serious chat with them.

I'm Irish so lots of friends who are Maebh/Maeve, Aoife, Siobhan, Sadbh always run into trouble with spellings and pronunciation, but if people, particularly their in-laws just didn't bother and decided to call them something vaguely Irish or Celtic sounding instead like ceili or Dublin or Guinness there's no other explanation other than they are xenophobic, surely?

@pocpocpoc
It is also hard to think that literally all of them were racist to me, so I am trying to find a nicer explanation for some of their behaviours.

I know it can be earth and heart shattering to realize people hate you or consider you less than human because your skin, language, religion or culture. I get it. Big hugs to you. But that doesn’t mean you (or your husband) should take this racial abuse any longer or expose your children to it.

Address the offenders by a random variant of their name, both in person and in writing. If questioned say you are making the same effort at getting their name right as they do for yours. The last two years have clarified my responses to people who revel in this kind of nonsense. Right back at ya is my mentality now; I will show jackasses what they look like. It really doesn't matter if their rationale is personal or systemic. Performative exertions of hierarchy should not be ignored.

My mum constantly mispronounces my best friend's name, despite having known her for 45 years. She also spells it wrongly. I correct her all the time, but she just doesn't seem to get it.

@pocpocpoc aye W is a strange one really when you think about it. And if you grow up saying it, I swear it hampers you with other languages. Eg I can never get the Spanish b/v sound right. I'm convinced it's because I've grown up with the letter W. My mouth just won't behave.

We have very minimal contact with the family TBH based on other, more overtly racists, situations.

I have decided to confront some of them and just trying to understand for myself what was racist and what was just unfortunate.

It is also hard to think that literally all of them were racist to me, so I am trying to find a nicer explanation for some of their behaviours.

I'm sorry but for 20 years you gave them the benefit of the doubt. And now you are bending over backward to find some harebrained, convoluted explanation other than they are horribly, disgustingly racist.

They are telling you who they are. They've told you for a long time now who they are. Now is time to just cut them off entirely, DH too. Racists have no place in your child's life.

@Drinkingallthewine @JingsMahBucket
@DextrousCT

I guess I needed to hear that.

Sometimes it is hard to call a spade a spade, not after years of gaslighting. See how many people on this thread are “confident” that it’s no biggie and make excuses.

DH has been on a journey himself. No one wants to admit they grew up with racists. So yes, we spent years giving them a benefit of doubt and making excuses for them,

I can understand your frustration, but I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it. I got on well with my ex's parents, but they never got to the point of pronouncing my name right. It's a foreign name, but quite a well-known one. I also have a surname that is fairly common, but it still gets spelled wrong by all and sundry.

@Novelusername

I can understand your frustration, but I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it. I got on well with my ex's parents, but they never got to the point of pronouncing my name right. It's a foreign name, but quite a well-known one. I also have a surname that is fairly common, but it still gets spelled wrong by all and sundry.

Sorry, but you are not reading my posts correctly. I am not unreasonable. I don't expect them to pronounce my name correctly (they never will), I don't expect them to spell it correctly - minor mistakes don't bother me as my name is originally written in a different alphabet.

It's when they use names or words that don't even sound like mine. When they use men's names, random Arabic words etc. and when it is different every time. I have come to conclusion that they must think it is ok to use any foreign word for me, because I am not important enough to make even a little bit of effort.

Sorry, @pocpocpoc, I didn't RTFT and I can see from the other posts you've written that there's more going on here, apologies.

I have a name that has a non-English letter in it. I can't teach people how to say it.
If I try to correct them they roll their eyes.

I have a foreign name that often gets mispronounced. Where I worked a couple of years ago one of my colleagues couldn’t get it right so consequently two thirds of the other people mispronounced it as well. But I had told my colleague several times what the right pronunciation is - not difficult, and I don’t know why she chose to leave out a crucial letter. In the end I stopped correcting her (after I had told her about 5 times) but I then spent a year and a half hearing my name being regularly butchered .

My name is not foreign but is a name that can be spelled in different ways. It is frequently misspelled. I think life is too short to care.

Not read the full thread (shoot me) but it’s bloody rude. 20 years! You are not unreasonable in the slightest.

You might not care because they probably don't get it horribly wrong, like they do with mine. I often find them changing my name to a man's name that starts and ends with the same letters.

It sounds like they're very set in their ways and feel threatened by someone foreign, so they're 'othering' you. She's not one of us, she's got a funny name and eats funny food etc. Perhaps they think you're judging them so they're sticking the boot in first to keep the upper hand.

It must be very annoying so yanbu.
My children all have very unusual names but it's very unusual for people to misspell them. At school or within family and friends. Because they care and make an effort.
My husband's full name is quite unusual for the UK and it's never misspelt by those (usually banks as otherwise he just uses the short version which is a v easy name) using it.
Funnily enough my name is a European name, used in England and spelt the same way tho there are a few other less common spellings and it does end up being misspelt quite frequently, usually putting an a at the end instead of an e so Laura instead of Laure for instance. But not by friends and family, more clients and the odd colleague.

You may need to be advised of pronunciation of someone's name, but only once. Rude or in some cases racist if you continue to mispronounce.

[quote Novelusername]It sounds like they're very set in their ways and feel threatened by someone foreign, so they're 'othering' you. She's not one of us, she's got a funny name and eats funny food etc. Perhaps they think you're judging them so they're sticking the boot in first to keep the upper hand. [/quote]
Never seen that video before! it is good! thank you!

@pocpocpoc there's a whole series of these with this obnoxious couple on YouTube from the Catherine Tate show. Perhaps the mentality rings a bell? I certainly recognise this type from people I've known.

@newnortherner111

You may need to be advised of pronunciation of someone's name, but only once. Rude or in some cases racist if you continue to mispronounce.

I do accept though that in some cases you can't expect people to be able to say names that contain sounds that do not exist in their native languages. Not all of us are linguistically gifted. Actually, I only know one single English person able to pronounce my name correctly - it took DH several dates to learn it to say it. So I don't ask for my name to be pronounced correctly. I just ask for it to sound 'about right'