Interrogated for planned absence

[MilkyButts]

I'm due to start my PGCE course in September and I emailed to say I needed two days off in mid November for a family wedding that has been rescheduled twice due to covid. I explained the situation and how it was important that I'm there and that I hoped it wasn't inappropriate to request the time off.

I received an email back from my teacher training provider assuring me it wasn't inappropriate but that they'd need some evidence to pass on to the University associated with the course.

I received an email a couple of days ago saying they've spoken to my course leader they want:

• to know why it's going to be two days and not one (we live in the south and the wedding is up north)
• whose wedding it is
• a booking confirmation for our accommodation
• to see the invite

I completely understand they want to check but this feels over the top to say this is a training course I'm paying for and not time off from a paid job.

I've let them know well in advance and I feel like what they're asking for is completely over the top!

Would you expect to be asked for evidence of every fine detail about a wedding you're going to or AIBU?

I did a PGCE in my late twenties and was bullied by my class teacher mentor on my last placement. She made my life a living hell to the point I had to be signed off by the GP with work related stress as I was just beside myself.

When I did my PGCE I’d say 3/4 of the class ended up leaving before the end and most of it was because of the class teacher mentors on placement. Apparently lots of people train but don’t take it seriously so they assume all students are like that. I found my PGCE year quite difficult and I was so fortunate to have such lovely class teachers as I couldn’t have gotten through it without them.
I really think something else needs to be done when this happens as a couple of my friends told our uni mentor and they said there’s not a lot they can do.

It's not just a course though OP. It's a PGSE. It's a qualification rather than a course which requires a certain amount of time spent on placement. It seems pretty OTT though. Btw good luck with your course though. I did one and it was not the best. It really did n't prepare me to teach at all. Instead most lectures involved ensuring that we met the standard for English and maths and we had to churn out theoretical essays. None of this was remotely helpful or practical.

I would say though; that although previous posters aren’t wrong in saying as a student teacher you emulate professional behaviours etc. I think student teachers should be cut a bit more slack. I got married during my PGCE and had a day off for that, and also for my honeymoon the flight landed on the first day back after the Easter holidays and I was given that day off too. As an employed teacher I would obviously have avoided those dates.

@toocold54

Sorry to hear that. The exact same thing happened to me. My 'mentor' said that she felt that no one doing a PGSE should become a teacher as she had had to train for four years to be one.

@Hugoslavia I wonder how your mentor would have felt about the Teach First/Salaried Schools Direct teachers who are alone, largely unsupervised, on a nearly full timetable from day one!

@TheSunShinesBrighter

She couldn't do what the hell she liked. The Burgundy Book sets out exactly what the minimum entitlement is for bereavement in the immediate family.

The ‘burgundy book’ (national conditions of service for school teachers in England and Wales) is the rule book for pay and conditions you are correct.
However, many HT will use their fucking brain and show emotional intelligence when someone asks for LOA.
This is unpaid if it falls outside the rules.

Yes, but the pp said that her head didn't allow the minimum time off for compassionate leave. That was why I mentioned the Burgundy book. A head can offer more, but not less.

Agree with a PP, can you really not do it in an evening and a day?
I did MiLs funeral ( North Yorkshire to far end of Cornwall) with one day off, drove down after work, did funeral and wake, drove back. Bit of a stint behind the wheel,but definitely doable, and my DH needed me there for support.

@sloutside

She couldn't do what the hell she liked. The Burgundy Book sets out exactly what the minimum entitlement is for bereavement in the immediate family

As I said, in her policy on staff absence she said time off for funerals only for the funeral itself for parents, children, siblings, spouse.

Presumably if and when the scenario arose people could object and claim their rights in the burgundy book.

But as I said, already, twice, she had this written in her policy on staff absence. I am not making this shit up.

She would not give me my NQT time off - 10% reduction in timetable as it was then. I was expected to teach all the time. Taking this up with her, then with the NQT supervisor from the LA got me absolutely nowhere. Well it did get me somewhere - she decided that the NQT reduction in timetable should be used for professional development (fair enough, good point) but what she actually did was timetable me to teach a Year 2 class for 10% of the time while the Year 2 teacher taught mine.

Was no-one in that school in a Union? No staff member on the governing body? She simply could NOT do this.

[quote Hugoslavia]@toocold54

Sorry to hear that. The exact same thing happened to me. My 'mentor' said that she felt that no one doing a PGSE should become a teacher as she had had to train for four years to be one.[/quote]
Stupid woman.
A one year PGCE comes after a 3 year degree (4 years)
3 years studying your subject and one year studying to teach it.

I know you know that already! She obviously didn’t!

Sorry to hear that. The exact same thing happened to me. My 'mentor' said that she felt that no one doing a PGSE should become a teacher as she had had to train for four years to be one.

That’s terrible!
Teaching is extremely hard especially when you’re training so it is very important to have someone supportive. I wonder if they’re worried that the newbies might take their jobs or something.

@2907NameChange

My story I almost exactly the same. Changed from law to do PGCE. My dad passed away during the course. I sailed through the first placement with great reports. The final one was horrendous. The uni were supportive, but my confidence was broken. I ended up with an altogether better career in the end and don't think that teaching was ultimately for me. I could do it now though as I have much more confidence, but in my early twenties that one teacher/mentor ham.ered every bit of confidence out of me at a time when I was at a bit of a low ebb. It's a brutal course.

@toocold54

In fairness and with hindsight I do think that the PGSE doesn't prepare you to teach in the same way as a teaching degree does, particularly at primary level. But I really felt that she had it in for me on day one and resented me for being a PGCE student. I have no idea why she disliked me so much but she deliberately went out of her way to make my life difficult.

@tothelakes

I don't think it's unreasonable given that you should be in placement. It's very unlikely you'd get that time off agreed once you're qualified.

That isn’t actually true. I know someone who went to Australia for a wedding. She was bridesmaid. She had two weeks off.

I had time off for a funeral, when my niece was on life support and a day to take my daughter to one of her uni interviews. He turned down two others days. I knew he had taken his own daughter and it was only 1 1/4 hrs whereas DD had to travel on three trains 6 hrs away and she had two portfolios and a sculpture for two interviews for two different courses. Once I told him he understood.

Other people have had days off for important occasions. This was two Headteachers.

You’d have thought you were taking a month of! This is why people call on sick rather than being honest, the hoops we have to jump through

Sorry to read the poor experiences some trainees had

OP I don't want you to be put off. So just wanted to add my experience was very positive. Supportive mentors and university tutors. Yes the course is so so tough but worth it! As a qualified teacher I've mentored NQTs and would like to think I was supportive. Teaching is hard work, but more often than not there's always someone who is not only willing but wants to lend a hand to help!

@KatherineOfGaunt are you in England/Wales? Because you say She had some TOIL from after-school events
TOIL doesn’t exist in schools in England and Wales for sure. I don’t know about Scotland and NI. Some after school events will be in directed time (the head is allowed to allocate 1295 hours over 195 days, some will be evening events like Parents’ Evenings and Open Evenings). Any other after school event will be ‘voluntary’. You won’t get time off in school time for it, as who would teach your class?

Support staff may get TOIL but not teachers

@Staffholidayclubrep

Support staff may get TOIL but not teachers

Exactly. I have never heard of a teacher getting TOIL. Our contracts don't allow for it. And it would be entirely impractical.

Imagine the OP on AIBU. "My child has had a succession of supply teachers this week because his teacher took a school trip/had three parents' evenings/is the coach for the U13s school football team and has been at matches every Saturday morning last half term..."

I used to work in teacher education. You have to complete a certain number of days/hours, and you can usually only take time off for illness - or sometimes a close family funeral. There’s quite tight guidance on allowable reasons for absence... and as other posters have said, once you’re a teacher, you’ll be lucky to get time off for a family wedding. My mum had to appeal to the regional Director of Education to get a day off unpaid for her brother’s wedding.
Thems the breaks with teaching....

Maybe they've had issues in the past Re students taking time off and pretending it's a wedding when it's a festival etc

So belt and braces maybe to prevent that happening, prob isn't personal

@saraclara

At several schools I've worked in, teachers had at least 1 wellbeing day (usually 2) to take a long weekend, go to a wedding or whatever. And even if it wasn't offical policy, staff have always been given time they asked for, for example to attend their children's sports day or assemblies.

Please, please tell us the names of these schools. Because I have never, ever come across anything like that. And I, my late DH and my daughter and son in law (not to mention many of my friends) are/were all teachers. I would love to work somewhere like that

Absolutely. My mum never once made it to any of our assemblies, sports days, etc. My dad was in the Forces, so was often away. We got used to it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I had a headteacher tell me that I couldn’t have the day off for my gran’s funeral as I couldn’t prove that is where I was really going. I ended up taking 5 days off with a “migraine” and didn’t have to prove anything because I could self-cert. Sometimes in teaching you are easier lying than being honest. It’s one of the things I really hate about my job.

Was no-one in that school in a Union? No staff member on the governing body? She simply could NOT do this

Yes she did. For heaven's sake. I was there. I was the NQT. I asked about my NQT time. She said I was to learn by staying in class and teaching. I went to the NQT adviser at the LA. She spoke to the head and said I had to have the time. The head said the time was to be used for professional development (rather than having "free" time). I was then sent to the Year 2 class - to teach. To professionally develop by teaching a different year group.
I gave up at that point. I was an NQT. I had no support whatsoever in that school. I was in a union but did not think of contacting me.

Quite frankly, I am starting to get really annoyed about you telling me what this head simply "could NOT do". She did this.
I am not telling lies. Why would I come on here lying about what happened?

did not think of contacting THEM - ie. the union

@toocold54

I did a PGCE in my late twenties and was bullied by my class teacher mentor on my last placement. She made my life a living hell to the point I had to be signed off by the GP with work related stress as I was just beside myself.

When I did my PGCE I’d say 3/4 of the class ended up leaving before the end and most of it was because of the class teacher mentors on placement. Apparently lots of people train but don’t take it seriously so they assume all students are like that. I found my PGCE year quite difficult and I was so fortunate to have such lovely class teachers as I couldn’t have gotten through it without them.
I really think something else needs to be done when this happens as a couple of my friends told our uni mentor and they said there’s not a lot they can do.

This was my experience too. My mentor for my final placement was a vile, power mad bully who made my life an absolute living hell for every minute I was in her school. She totally ruined my confidence, to the point that it took a good three or four years for me to get my “mojo” back, and put me off teaching for life. I finished the course with a job offer, but I have never and will never set foot in a classroom again. I moved to law which is far friendlier and more supportive!