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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Interrogated for planned absence

199 replies

MilkyButts · 29/07/2021 17:53

I'm due to start my PGCE course in September and I emailed to say I needed two days off in mid November for a family wedding that has been rescheduled twice due to covid. I explained the situation and how it was important that I'm there and that I hoped it wasn't inappropriate to request the time off.

I received an email back from my teacher training provider assuring me it wasn't inappropriate but that they'd need some evidence to pass on to the University associated with the course.

I received an email a couple of days ago saying they've spoken to my course leader they want:

  • to know why it's going to be two days and not one (we live in the south and the wedding is up north)
  • whose wedding it is
  • a booking confirmation for our accommodation
  • to see the invite

I completely understand they want to check but this feels over the top to say this is a training course I'm paying for and not time off from a paid job.

I've let them know well in advance and I feel like what they're asking for is completely over the top!

Would you expect to be asked for evidence of every fine detail about a wedding you're going to or AIBU?

OP posts:
2bazookas · 29/07/2021 20:07

During PGCE you're supposed to be demonstrating the kind of professional behaviour and responsibility expected of teachers. Taking time off during term for social occasions causes huge inconvenience to teaching colleagues and disrupts pupils' education.

   You're being given a hard rap across the knuckles.
FrippEnos · 29/07/2021 20:08

The last time that I did the training for the PGCE mentoring the total amount of time that you could miss was 5 days across the whole year.

BuffyFanForever · 29/07/2021 20:13

Very surprised they are allowing you to go at all! I would give them all they ask for and be grateful. When you have a teaching job you will basically never ever be able to do that so they are being incredibly reasonable allowing you to book it off!

saraclara · 29/07/2021 20:14

At several schools I've worked in, teachers had at least 1 wellbeing day (usually 2) to take a long weekend, go to a wedding or whatever.
And even if it wasn't offical policy, staff have always been given time they asked for, for example to attend their children's sports day or assemblies.

Please, please tell us the names of these schools. Because I have never, ever come across anything like that. And I, my late DH and my daughter and son in law (not to mention many of my friends) are/were all teachers. I would love to work somewhere like that

DietrichandDiMaggio · 29/07/2021 20:17

@saraclara

I would never have been allowed time off for a wedding in any of the schools I taught in. At one, the brother of one of our poorly paid TAs was getting married on a school day, and even she had to contact the governors and beg when the head initially turned her down.

Welcome to the world of teaching. Though it's cheering to hear from one or two posters that there are schools that would allow it.

This sort of thing makes me grateful for our HT. She would always try and accommodate things like family weddings, because she appreciates how hard her staff team work to make her school the success it is.
tulippa · 29/07/2021 20:18

Completely normal for a PGCE. I had to take a morning off because DS had a hospital appointment and had to submit proof of the appointment and also that I'd caught up with the lectures I'd missed.

itsgettingwierd · 29/07/2021 20:19

@saraclara

At several schools I've worked in, teachers had at least 1 wellbeing day (usually 2) to take a long weekend, go to a wedding or whatever. And even if it wasn't offical policy, staff have always been given time they asked for, for example to attend their children's sports day or assemblies.

Please, please tell us the names of these schools. Because I have never, ever come across anything like that. And I, my late DH and my daughter and son in law (not to mention many of my friends) are/were all teachers. I would love to work somewhere like that

I know a few who do this.

It's a trade off for doing things like the whole day Christmas or summer fair.

So it's not really a again - but an exchange. But they call the weekday off in exchange a well-being day.

MySecretHistory · 29/07/2021 20:19

It costs up to £250 a day to cover a teacher. So £500 cost a school for 2- day wedding. Even allowing unpaid leave there is a cost to the school.

FrippEnos · 29/07/2021 20:20

Cannes12
At several schools I've worked in, teachers had at least 1 wellbeing day (usually 2) to take a long weekend, go to a wedding or whatever.

I have never heard "wellbeing days".

And I can't imagine that it would go down well with the teacher hating social media or press in the UK if it ever became a thing.

Hercisback · 29/07/2021 20:20

Pretty normal in teaching.

How far is it? I've done a far end of Cornwall funeral from North Midlands using only one day. Drove down in the evening after work and back home the evening after the funeral. Was bloody knackered but only way I could go. Do you really need both days?

sloutside · 29/07/2021 20:21

Please, please tell us the names of these schools. Because I have never, ever come across anything like that. And I, my late DH and my daughter and son in law (not to mention many of my friends) are/were all teachers. I would love to work somewhere like that

Yes, I too would like to know where these schools with wellbeing days are. No school I ever worked in allowed two days off for a wedding in term time. One school once allowed a teacher to leave on Friday lunchtime to travel a long way for a wedding on the Saturday.

The headteachers I worked for all had different rules for funerals - some more flexible than others. One HT allowed people time off for any funeral at all they wanted to go to - it did cause problems for other staff though as three members of staff were "enthusiastic funeral goers" and went to just about any funeral of anyone in the parish, no matter how well they knew them.
At the other end of the scale I worked for one HT who allowed time off only for funerals of parents, children, spouse or siblings. This was all set out in the school policy on staff attendance. Time off was only granted for the funeral itself so people were not allowed to take the whole day off...

cansu · 29/07/2021 20:22

MySecretHistory
For a student on placement there is no supply cost as the normal class teacher will step in and teach.

Grace58 · 29/07/2021 20:24

I'm a teacher and the training provider is being far firmer than the school would be. In my training year I had two days off for a funeral (also involving travel to the other side of the country / feeling like I would probably just need a day afterwards to regroup) and school were wonderful and had no issues. Conversely my university tutor was a bit of a dick when I was in a university session a day or two after the death and had a bit of a wobble and asked to be excused for the rest of the day.

AlohaMolly · 29/07/2021 20:26

Just to add some lightness to the conversation - not all schools stick to the draconian rules, you just have to scout out the good ones!

My first school was incredibly traditional, grant maintained, very 1950s, very academic approach, terrifying headmaster. I had a full week paid leave when my father was taken ill (not dying) in another part of the U.K. I had to travel down and help him out. I also had a full week off when I miscarried with no need to provide anything other than my word. The head also made sure we did twilight training in order to give us some ‘shopping’ days before Christmas.

In the last school I taught at, the head gave one member of staff a day off a half term - one half term it would be me, the next it would be the year one teacher etc. She’d cover the class. She also allowed people time off to go to their children’s nativities and sports day etc, and she took the same herself - as did her husband who worked in the same school!

cansu · 29/07/2021 20:27

I think most schools that want to keep their staff recognise that people have lives; families and may need time off occasionally. Refusing these kinds of requests or being shitty about medical appointments means staff vote with their feet or alternatively take sick days which are much more inconvenient than a planned absence.

babycorn123 · 29/07/2021 20:28

I was granted four days of unpaid leave when my dad suddenly dropped dead on a Monday evening.

Every medical appointment that is unavoidable in term time has to be evidenced with the doctor/hospital appointment letter, no matter how personal the reason.

I actually requested that a fairly important operation be delayed by a few weeks so that I didn't have to ask for time off from work.

Really irks me that people bang on about the holidays etc, when actually they are used up doing life admin/appointments/etc that we have no chance of doing during term time! Oh, and of course, more actual flipping unpaid work.

Birminghambloke · 29/07/2021 20:28

Teacher training success is all about completing a set number of course coverage days and a set number of placement days.
Whilst on placement, you adopt the teacher role, therefore it is a job, albeit unpaid.
Schools go out of their way to enable placements to support teacher training. Absence reflects badly on the student and the training provider.
Teachers are not generally allowed time off within the STPCD set days (the 195 days) and are required to evidence all absence within these. You want to be a teacher, so this is giving you a clear taste of what it’s like!

2bazookas · 29/07/2021 20:31

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer

This thread has been really eye opening for me. I work in a school in America and I'm shocked with what I read. In the District I work in (same as an LA) we receive 10 paid sick days each school year (Sept - June). If we dont use them they carry over (so I have well over 30 for next year before they even add the 10 more). We also get 3 paid personal days which they are not even ALLOWED to ask us what we are taking the day off for. There are also paid bereavement days (the amount of days depends on the relationship). I've never known anyone to not be given a day off for a funeral for anyone (example for a friend, so not listed under the paid bereavement days). I really feel bad for teachers in England.
UK teachers would be appalled at that miserly "10 paid sick days " a year.

Even newly qualified teachers get 25 (working days) on full sick pay, and 50 on half pay. By 4 years in, they are entitled to 100 sick days on full pay and 100 on half pay.

Weekends and school holidays are not counted as working days when calculating paid sick leave.

Hopeisnotastrategy · 29/07/2021 20:32

YABU I'm afraid.

newnortherner111 · 29/07/2021 20:33

In Covid times where weddings have been postponed I think it is being unreasonable to ask for such detailed information, and to be honest, the names of the happy couple seems intrusive. Showing an invite or a hotel booking perhaps.

In non-Covid times I would understand no for an answer.

Flossing · 29/07/2021 20:33

@sloutside

Please, please tell us the names of these schools. Because I have never, ever come across anything like that. And I, my late DH and my daughter and son in law (not to mention many of my friends) are/were all teachers. I would love to work somewhere like that

Yes, I too would like to know where these schools with wellbeing days are. No school I ever worked in allowed two days off for a wedding in term time. One school once allowed a teacher to leave on Friday lunchtime to travel a long way for a wedding on the Saturday.

The headteachers I worked for all had different rules for funerals - some more flexible than others. One HT allowed people time off for any funeral at all they wanted to go to - it did cause problems for other staff though as three members of staff were "enthusiastic funeral goers" and went to just about any funeral of anyone in the parish, no matter how well they knew them.
At the other end of the scale I worked for one HT who allowed time off only for funerals of parents, children, spouse or siblings. This was all set out in the school policy on staff attendance. Time off was only granted for the funeral itself so people were not allowed to take the whole day off...

At the other end of the scale I worked for one HT who allowed time off only for funerals of parents, children, spouse or siblings. This was all set out in the school policy on staff attendance. Time off was only granted for the funeral itself so people were not allowed to take the whole day off...

Seriously? So if your sibling or spouse or child died you were only allowed a few hours for the funeral itself? This is a terrible way to treat people, I can only imagine how that school was run. How was the staff turn over? How was general well being? I've never heard of anything like that. Disgusting.

Maireas · 29/07/2021 20:34

I've never had a wellbeing day either! I suspect, as pp have said, the hours must have been accounted for elsewhere.

bowchicawowwow · 29/07/2021 20:34

Our school would allow a day for a close family member's wedding with a decent amount of notice and a lesson planned. Time off in teaching is always tricky and a total no-no unless it's a dire emergency. Silly stuff like washing machine breaking down and not being able to schedule a repair after the end of my working day or on a weekend. Twice I've bought a replacement machine to be delivered on a weekend as it was easier!

RingPiece · 29/07/2021 20:39

Unfortunately this is the norm in teaching. It's an extremely inflexible career. Thankfully, I no longer teach but I remember consoling a colleague whose mother had died. Her dad had died long ago and as an only child, she was in charge of organising absolutely every aspect of the funeral. She was only allowed the morning of the funeral off work and had to hand over the reigns to a friend for the afternoon whilst she went back to school to teach until the end of the day. The lack of compassion eventually broke her and she left.

Pugdoglife · 29/07/2021 20:40

YABU, when you join a teacher training course you are expected to begin behaving as a teacher and if a teacher wanted time off they would be expected to provide evidence.

I've only worked in schools where this would be granted if it was a parent or sibling getting married, not a cousin or auntie and even then it would be unpaid. I've known colleagues who were not allowed leave for funerals of best friends.

As pointed out already teaching is inflexible and not particularly friendly to family life or socialising.