Interrogated for planned absence

[MilkyButts]

I'm due to start my PGCE course in September and I emailed to say I needed two days off in mid November for a family wedding that has been rescheduled twice due to covid. I explained the situation and how it was important that I'm there and that I hoped it wasn't inappropriate to request the time off.

I received an email back from my teacher training provider assuring me it wasn't inappropriate but that they'd need some evidence to pass on to the University associated with the course.

I received an email a couple of days ago saying they've spoken to my course leader they want:

• to know why it's going to be two days and not one (we live in the south and the wedding is up north)
• whose wedding it is
• a booking confirmation for our accommodation
• to see the invite

I completely understand they want to check but this feels over the top to say this is a training course I'm paying for and not time off from a paid job.

I've let them know well in advance and I feel like what they're asking for is completely over the top!

Would you expect to be asked for evidence of every fine detail about a wedding you're going to or AIBU?

[Hollyhead]

ITT providers are heaviliy scrutinised by ofsted about attendance. They'll be crossing their i's and dotting the t's as evidence that they have robust procedures in place.

[Pinkflipflop85]

I would imagine training providers are making sure they are doing absolutely everything by the book right now due to the new ofsted inspection framework.

[Pissinthepottyplease]

That’s teaching for you. Try getting a couple of hours off unpaid for a funeral and it’s like your asking for a week to go to Ibiza.

[EL8888]

This sounds like nurse training, very controlled with lots of micro-management. Then fairly similar when l qualified, the mindset was very assume you’re working unless you’re told otherwise

[cansu]

They are being ridiculous. I would be tempted to ignore that email completely. Your error was in how you worded your request. You should have simply informed them of the date and your absence. I find that the more apologetic you are the more intrusive and OTT people can be. FWIW I have worked in teaching for over 20 years and have never been asked to prove anything in this way.

[AzureTwist]

Welcome to having to show all medical letters to get time off, only a few family days a year and after that unpaid. But still have to set and mark the work for those days. No sports days, school events before 4pm or whenever can drive there.

[ThanksItHasPockets]

YABU. It’s not only standard for teacher training but for any employment-based training programme.

[PattyPan]

It’s reasonable to ask why it has to be two days and whose wedding it is, IMO - they might offer for you to go in for part of the day if that turns out to be practical and wouldn’t want you to go for someone not that close. But asking for the invite and booking confirmation is weird, intrusive and doesn’t really benefit them!

[Barbie222]

Welcome to teaching. It's very inflexible amd not the family friendly career people think it is. I know many teachers who have been refused time off in similar situations.

I'm afraid this is true. Once you are qualified, there is no right of leave for a wedding. The Burgundy Book lists the occasions when teachers can take leave and they're very few. I have never attended a term time wedding in 20 years, neither has any teacher I know.

[user1471596980]

Just bear in mind you might also be expected to set work (or at least offer to). A teacher would more than likely have to do this but as a trainee, the main class teacher will probably do this for you.

[Purplepeoniesdroppingpetals]

We now have to show evidence of medical appointments hence having to step into the corridor to have a chat with the gp over the phone. However, for all his faults, my slt didn’t peep at me when I told him that I was going to my uncle’s funeral, my grandma’s funeral or my bil’s funeral and I got them all paid. I’ve mentored one student who had to make up over a week of absence at the end of the year and it caused loads of problems so try and clarify if it’s approved.

[ThanksItHasPockets]

Yes, you will earn brownie points with your placement school if you offer to set cover for any classes that you are teaching at that point.

[MySecretHistory]

A teacher wouldn't get a day off for this.
You will be on placement as a teacher.

Leave of absence will not be granted for an employees own wedding during term time.
For time off to attend the wedding of the employees’ or employees' partner’s immediate family, one day with pay will be granted. Unavoidable travelling time in excess of this will be considered without pay.
Time off to attend the wedding of someone other than the member of the employees' or employees' partner’s immediate family, one day without pay will be granted.

[Paddling654]

This seems completely normal or everyone would do it. They're being very accommodating. I wouldn't have asked.

[MySecretHistory]

Close relatives' or 'immediate family' are defined as spouse, partner, children, parents, grandparents, sister/brother, parents-in-law and those of partner or nominated next of kin. This also includes step children, foster and adopted children/parents.

[Scarby9]

Many schools would say no to this request out of hand if you were already a teacher or TA, but ITT often do allow if the commitment was made before the course was accepted.

In this case, you had accepted the (original) wedding well in advance, then Covid got in the way!

The university have not (yet) said no. But it is normal, in my experience, for them to ask for this level of documentation to back up your request. Provide it, and hope!

[Staffholidayclubrep]

When you enter teaching you sign away rights to things such as term-time appointments.

The expectation is that any medical/dental appt is outside of school hours. I once had to provide evidence of a hospital appointment during school time to get permission to leave the site. It is why teachers have to arrange 'life-stuff for during the school breaks.

You are paid to deliver lessons during term time. If you are not there then it adds to the workload of your colleagues who then have to provide cover.

The Burgundy Book rules.

[YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer]

This thread has been really eye opening for me. I work in a school in America and I'm shocked with what I read. In the District I work in (same as an LA) we receive 10 paid sick days each school year (Sept - June). If we dont use them they carry over (so I have well over 30 for next year before they even add the 10 more). We also get 3 paid personal days which they are not even ALLOWED to ask us what we are taking the day off for. There are also paid bereavement days (the amount of days depends on the relationship). I've never known anyone to not be given a day off for a funeral for anyone (example for a friend, so not listed under the paid bereavement days). I really feel bad for teachers in England.

[Cannes12]

Ignore the posters saying welcome to teaching.
At several schools I've worked in, teachers had at least 1 wellbeing day (usually 2) to take a long weekend, go to a wedding or whatever.
And even if it wasn't offical policy, staff have always been given time they asked for, for example to attend their children's sports day or assemblies.
Most heads recognise how hard teachers work and this is something they can do to make their life easier, build morale and decrease burn out.
So your ITT provider might be being an arse, but don't worry about your future career.
(And always ask in interviews for teaching jobs - what do they do for staff well being.)

[ChloeCrocodile]

I've only been teaching for 8 years, but I've never known anyone off for a wedding, except immediate family (and even then it has only happened twice). We get lots of holidays. The flip side is that you can't take time off when you want to, and may have to miss occasions.

When I did teacher training the provider was clear from the outset that we were expected to follow the normal expectations of teaching.

Tbh, I find the "set work for classes when you are ill" to be much worse - if I'm too ill to work, any work set is likely to be crap! Better by far to set work for colleagues classes when they're sick and they do the same for me.

[squiglet111]

These are all the hoops teachers need to jump through to get time off in term time. If it's not immediate family than it usually gets rejected.

[Musmerian]

I’m not surprised. I’m a teacher and given the holidays we get it’s generally not done to take time off for personal stuff. They’re not saying you can’t go - they’re just asking for more info. The fact that you’re paying for it is not relevant- it’s a big commitment.

[Xenia]

Could you fly up for the wedding (you - rest of family get train or drive) so you can do it in one day instead eg flight at 6am and then fly back on the last flight of the day?

[Twillow]

Well, you certainly won't get time off for a wedding once you're teaching so might as well get used to it now!

[CommanderBurnham]

As PP says, welcome to teaching. Leave is only given in exceptional circumstances , and when working in a school, might not be given.