Interrogated for planned absence

[MilkyButts]

I'm due to start my PGCE course in September and I emailed to say I needed two days off in mid November for a family wedding that has been rescheduled twice due to covid. I explained the situation and how it was important that I'm there and that I hoped it wasn't inappropriate to request the time off.

I received an email back from my teacher training provider assuring me it wasn't inappropriate but that they'd need some evidence to pass on to the University associated with the course.

I received an email a couple of days ago saying they've spoken to my course leader they want:

• to know why it's going to be two days and not one (we live in the south and the wedding is up north)
• whose wedding it is
• a booking confirmation for our accommodation
• to see the invite

I completely understand they want to check but this feels over the top to say this is a training course I'm paying for and not time off from a paid job.

I've let them know well in advance and I feel like what they're asking for is completely over the top!

Would you expect to be asked for evidence of every fine detail about a wedding you're going to or AIBU?

[MaidEdithofAragon]

I'm a HT. Everyone on this thread with teaching knowledge is correct. The number of days you have to do is not flexible. Same as those of us in the job.

[RightYesButNo]

I think your feelings about this are probably what’s causing the disconnection? i.e “a training course I’m paying for” vs. the university looking at it as an academic course you are part of, and as such it will have very strict absence rules that are in the handbook. For example, Univ. Southampton (I just Googled “PGCE” and “Absence” and they were the easiest to read) state “you will NOT be permitted absence for:
• a vacation outside of programme date times
• time off to complete assessed work on this programme or another enrolled programme
• compassionate leave except in the instances of very close relatives.
All requests for absence (other than illness) must be made in writing.” So they’re not even considering funerals, unless they’re very close family, much less weddings, I assume because this is probably how it would work if you were a teacher during term time? I suspect your PGCE is being more “open” due to COVID, but they still don’t want people taking the piss, so they’re asking for proof it’s a close relative, and a once in a lifetime special wedding, as you say (mum, dad, sibling, or… your own).

Also, my understanding was, if you can ask for the date in advance, versus an emergency/illness, then it’s a planned absence. Maybe someone can correct me.

[Wigalish]

I requested 3 days off my doctoral training in year 1 to attend a family wedding abroad (I was also bridesmaid) and they agreed and didn't ask for evidence. I think this is a bit OTT, but I wonder if Covid has made it all stricter.

[Maireas]

@Malbecfan is spot on, confirmed by @MaidEdithofAragon. Submit your evidence well in advance.

[ShadowInVain]

Sounds draconian to me. . The holiday allowance in the corporate world may be a pittance compared to teaching, but at least you don't have to justify taking your annual leave when you want it.

Hope you can get it sorted, OP.

[TillyTopper]

That seems way OTT to me. But I'd probably just ping it off to them, then they are satisfied, no argument.

[NeverForgetYourDreams]

At our sons secondary school the teachers always seem to be having time off. One went to America for 3 weeks in October ...

[TheBitchOfTheVicar]

@ShadowInVain

Sounds draconian to me. . The holiday allowance in the corporate world may be a pittance compared to teaching, but at least you don't have to justify taking your annual leave when you want it.

Hope you can get it sorted, OP.

Everyone goes - or should go - into the teaching professional with the understanding that holidays are totally inflexible and any granting of leave during term time is a bonus. Personally I view it as a good trade-off for the terms and conditions of the job.

When I was a PGCE student I needed time off for an operation. It wasn't a problem at all. As a teacher I asked for two or three (I forget) days off for a wedding abroad and was fully prepared for them to say no. In the event, they agreed to give me unpaid leave

[saraclara]

I would never have been allowed time off for a wedding in any of the schools I taught in. At one, the brother of one of our poorly paid TAs was getting married on a school day, and even she had to contact the governors and beg when the head initially turned her down.

Welcome to the world of teaching. Though it's cheering to hear from one or two posters that there are schools that would allow it.

[saraclara]

Teachers are only officially allowed time off for funerals if the deceased is immediate family. Aunts and cousins don't even count if your head goes by the book!

[modgepodge]

I’ve worked for 3 heads who have given time off for a wedding (my sister - 2 heads approved this as I actually moved schools after one school had approved it) and a friend, and 2 who have given me time off to do a sporting event - one during my PGCE! So it is possible in teaching, but not guaranteed. In the case of my sister’s wedding, I’d have handed my notice in rather than miss it (not that I had to make this threat).

[Geamhradh]

@MilkyButts

The two days fall on one placement day and one uni day where they usually teach you subject related skills.

It isn't a "planned" absence as such because this wedding was supposed to happen twice over the past 12 months so I don't feel like I have a choice but to go as it's a special family wedding not just any wedding

There's your answer then. You were expected to be in a classroom and now you won't be and that's going to have to be dealt with.
Poor form really in teaching unfortunately. Especially at the training stage

[Flossing]

I've had a day off to attend a wedding (was abroad, couldn't get back in time as wedding on a Sunday). My pay wasn't altered for missing a day. Teaching is inflexible but some heads allow this sort of thing as long as you don't do it constantly. It will be at the heads discretion though and some will dock pay.

As for the evidence they require, if you had a hospital appointment and had to miss a day work you would likely have to provide your appointment letter so it's not too different. Having said that I did not have to provide evidence for the wedding I missed a days work for! But these things vary place to place.

As a side note I agree with the poster who said people don't realise it's actually very inflexible. I had to explain to a school mum I couldn't leave work at 3pm to collect my child by 3.15! And couldn't understand I couldn't just 'alter my working hours.'

Good luck with the pgce

[modgepodge]

Oh and I have had time off for 2 funerals, one paid and one unpaid, but no question I could go.

On the flip side, when my flight was cancelled on a Sunday evening coming back from a wedding and I had to miss Monday as I was stuck in a different country, it was unpaid 🤷‍♀️ Swings and roundabouts.

[1992EM]

It could be so it is classed as authorised, instead of an unauthorised absence. They need evidence to back that up. I am a teacher and they are very strict about attendance as if you drop below a certain percentage you are not able to complete placements. It does seem excessive though. Will you be on placement at this time?

[modgepodge]

Oh and I’ve never been asked to show evidence for any absence, medical or wedding. I think it’s weird - either approve it or don’t, why do they need to see the invite?!

[KatherineOfGaunt]

@ShadowInVain

Sounds draconian to me. . The holiday allowance in the corporate world may be a pittance compared to teaching, but at least you don't have to justify taking your annual leave when you want it.

Hope you can get it sorted, OP.

But teachers can't take their annual leave when they want. You go into teaching knowing this. It's not draconian. Otherwise schools would be very spending money covering teacher absences in term-time. Can you imagine what parents would say if their teacher was off for two weeks in May?!

OP, as others have said, you need to cover a certain number of days to get the qualification, so they just want evidence that you're not being flaky. Just provide them with what they ask for (make up an invite with the correct date on).

As for schools, they do vary. I had a day off unpaid for a friend's wedding in the last week of summer term once. And at another school a teacher had a week off to have 3 weeks holiday in total at Easter to go to Australia. She had some TOIL from after-school events and then they gave her the other days unpaid. It very much depends on the school.

[MrsHamlet]

The issue is that - as I and others have pointed out - the requirements for the training year specify a number of days of placement and a number of days of training. The OP is asking to miss one of each.
It doesn't matter how important the reason; the training provider is accountable for the number of days completed.

[PotteringAlong]

As everyone else has said, completely normal and that’s just the way it is. Also remember you will have to make up the training days you’ve missed at the end of the course - you need to be in school for a certain amount of days. You’re expected to make it up if you’re ill and will definitely be expected to make it up for this.

[PyjamaFan]

I'm afraid this is part of being a teacher.

My Mum couldn't attend my cousin's wedding, a colleague won Wimbledon tickets but couldn't go, another colleague couldn't attend her uncle's memorial service

It's the flip side of the long holidays. Absolutely no flexibility apart from compassionate leave in very limited circumstances.

[BerylReader]

Normal for teaching unfortunately. If it’s not a close family member in a job they’d probably say no. And that includes funerals. You and another person are going to get paid for that day if they agree. I had to take an unpaid day for my uncles funeral.

[NursePotato]

When I was a student nurse, I had to show a death certificate to get a day off off placement for a funeral.

[TheCrowening]

I completely understand they want to check but this feels over the top to say this is a training course I'm paying for and not time off from a paid job.

Part of what you need to be demonstrating is your suitability for and commitment to the profession. Paying for a course doesn’t mean you get to call the shots.

[maddy68]

Standard for teaching. Noone gets time off in term time so if it's a reason you need to evidence it eg why two days , because it's the other end of the country. That's enough

[Datsandcogs]

One school I worked in on permanent contract wouldn’t let me have the day off to go to a Royal Garden party. My union thought them wrong but in the end I took an unpaid day.

Same school thought it was perfectly acceptable for parents to want feedback after hours when returning from a school trip on a Friday evening! (Feedback not relating to the trip and I was the only staff member with a full class, no one on site to meet the bus, a few years ago now!)

Some schools are reasonable, some less so. I think they have asked for too much evidence and explanation.