AIBU to not want my son to do a class I can't observe?

[RainyNightInTallinn]

My DS4 is obsessed with martial arts. I found what appears to be a great Karate school which does classes for 3-12 year olds and looks really good. Only thing is they say parents can't observe the classes, not even the free trial class. They said it's to develop self-esteem and protect the privacy of all students.

Problem is, I feel uncomfortable just taking my shy 4-year-old along and sending him in along for an hour without me ever having met these teachers, not knowing this school, etc. These people are total strangers to me. AIBU? Am I being overprotective? I know we essentially do the same thing at normal school, but at school there are many adults, oversight, etc. at this karate school it's a couple who run it and teach groups of 4 kids at a time.

I teach karate.

I let the parents stay, if they want to. Most of our dojos are church halls, so they either sit down the far end of the room, or they can sit in the entryway and watch through the doors. Most parents, after the first class or couple of classes, are happy to leave their children in our care.

I don't allow them to sit anywhere too close to the children though. Too many parents don't seem to understand that they can't chat to their child during the class (not on break), or 'instruct' their child themselves, or have loud gossipy conversations with other parents. And the children don't understand why they can't go running to mum or dad whenever they feel like it.

But you should be allowed to observe at least the first class and I wouldn't recommend a club that doesn't allow this, tbh.

I'd want to be able to observe the trial session at least.
Otherwise how are you supposed to know whether the class is suitable.
I'd be suspicious of somewhere that didn't allow parents to watch the first couple of times. I'd go somewhere else to be honest.

I wouldn't be bothered about not being able to watch the class once you have done so a couple of times. I think it's less distracting when the parents aren't there.

Hmm it sounds like an odd way to phrase it on their part. Our kids go to gymnastic classes which have mandatory parental supervision until age four and then the kids go by themselves. But if parents want to go they are absolutely able to. I'd look for something else, sounds like the ethos is not what you are after.

My DD did ballet from 3yrs Unobserved by me or any other parent & loved it. She’s not the most confident kid either but settled very quickly. It’s perfectly normal to not sit in.

My DCs have done lots of classes/activities over the years (dance, gymnastics, music, Rainbows/Brownies, St Johns etc) and most of them have not allowed parents to stay and watch BUT most (not all) allowed parents to stay for first/trial class if required.

I don't think there's anything suspicious about it but if it's not for you, find another club/activity that does.

I’d want the opportunity to get a sense of how the people who run the sessions interact with the children. I don’t think it’s a bad thing for parents not be able to stay on an ongoing basis but I think you need to be able to get a feel for how the sessions are run and what the staff are like.

My daughter went to two different activities starting age 4 or younger that we didn't stay for. One was ballet and we were asked to sit in the next room as it is distracting to them - they did watching week every half term.

The other meant us leaving her there for 1.5 hours. It was a reputable club and it didn't really occur to me to worry about it. Multiple adults on site. I reckon in normal times they'd let you stay on site for a bit if you wanted but not with covid at the moment.

If it were me I'd let him try it, but your intuition is the most important.

I would want to watch a 4 year old as I would be able to pick up on how happy they were or if they were struggling better than strangers.

FWIW all of the activities dc have done have allowed parents to watch all the way through - two have discouraged it and I have found those to be the least good ones by some considerable distance - though that might have been coincidence!

One of the sports coaches who discouraged watching was using some really poor management techniques it turned out. Long story, I won't go into the details

I don't think you build a 4 year old's self esteem by putting them in a room with several strangers for an hour, I think that is gobbledegook.

DD started ballet at 4 and they didn't want the parents watching the classes. She was (and still is) very shy but honestly this worked so well for her. Without parents in the room she was far less inhibited and actually got on with it really well. Obviously all kids are different but I was a little nervous about it and it was fine. I was however in the waiting room so was on hand if anything went wrong and she did need me! The ballet studio didn't sound as hardline about it though - it was more just from their own experience of what tended to work best.

I don't think it is 'distracting' to have parents stay to watch a session. Plenty of sports or activity groups have parents observe without any problems. If the leaders don't make the group engaging enough and many of the kids are too easily distracted, that is the leaders' fault not yours.

@RainyNightInTallinn - I am a Martial Arts instructor (Judo & Jui-Jitsu), and will always ask if a parent would like to watch at least the first lesson.

After that though, I don't like parents watching, as they are a distraction to the class - particularly if little Johnny or Janey wants to see if mum or / and dad is watching them perform a technique - that way injury lies!

I'd personally advise you to be careful with any Martial Arts class. You definitely want to see the teacher in action. Also ask to see their qualifications, Disclosure & Barring certificate, and any other paperwork they have (I've never been asked for any, in over 15 years of teaching!) . There are some organisations out there that put a "teacher" in front of a class that is only actually a few weeks ahead of their students...

How would you feel if your child joined a class and then every other week there was a different stranger sat watching the class (many of whom will not be dbs checked)? Would you be ok with that? As this is the situation if parents are allowed to watch the trial session. Each time a new child joins their parents then disrupt everyone else's regular session. Some children hate having an audience of people they dont know, your child's familiar mum is another child's 'stranger'. I run dance classes and it is quite usual for the younger age groups especially to have a new starter every week through sept - oct, and again after christmas and easter, when it is a regular occurrence it is a disruption to the other children in the group.

I run a youth group as does my DH and neither of us would ever stop a parent observing what we do. I would never allow my son to take part in an activity that didn’t welcome observers. That would be a massive red flag for me.

We felt the same about my 3/4 year old GC doing dance. But it is better that parents aren't there. The class can be watched in the building on a TV, though. The sessions are recorded and held. You've only got to read the threads about sports day and over prescious parents to see why this rule is in place. You'd also get whole family outings to watch.

Their reasoning is absolutely not sound . My DS has ASD and when he was 6 we enrolled him for judo classes. The clas teacher was absolutely fine with us attending which was just as well as DS needed to observe the class with us there for two whole sessions before he would join in . He'd have been absolutely distraught to have been left there alone on the firts session and frankly I'd have felt sorry for the teacher having to deal with his anxiety. DS went on to happily attend without us there for two years but he always needed several sessions with us there before doing anything new ( we has the same with tennis,, kickboxing and swimming , all of which he eventually happily did for years after having 2-3 sessions ms to watch first )

Also just to say there’s a massive difference between parents watching not being the norm, and discouraging or not allowing parents who want to stay.

To me it’s a red flag. Transparency is good for safeguarding. Even just watching one class so you can get the vibe of the instructors.

Our martial arts school that my son attends have the classes on one side of the room and the parents or whoever sit at the other side but behind a massive wall and we watch on TV screens, so we CAN see what they're doing, but the kids can't see us - it's a great solution but if your MA isn't set up the same then I don't know what to suggest! Like other posters have said, my son has come on in leaps and bounds since joining so it's definitely worth it IMO xxxx

I am a karate instructor and any club that wont let anyone at all observe is a massive red flag. What is the reason given for the? Is the club affiliated to any recognised karate governing body? Are the instructors DBS checked?

I wouldn't send him at 4. My ds did a variety of activities and all of them allowed at least 1 parent to observe.

I instruct children in a sporty activity with 16 years experience and lots of parents feel like you and I do understand it. Some venues I teach at allow parents to watch from behind glass,others not at all.
In my independent classes,I dont allow it.
I did at first in one hall. The doors had two small circular windows that parents would hover around outside of. It always led to arguments of certain parents not letting other have a look

But it can cause lots of issues in class like.. Some kids clam up and get embarrassed if their parents are watching.

Other kids get embarrassed when an unknown adult is looking.
Some kids feel really hurt because their parents cant watch them/don't have the time and sometimes get upset when other children have mum to wave to or fetch their water from at break time.

As others have said it builds confidence too. When they are in school you dont watch them. And any proper instructor will be trained and vetted.

A lot of activities are now behind closed doors due to covid. But it's true that some activities had this closed door policy before. Whether you are comfortable with it is another question.

I do understand that children are different being watched by parents (both good and bad!) - plus, sometimes the competitive parents can be really off-putting for other parents and children.

I reluctantly agreed to dance 'behind closed doors' before covid. However, we were allowed to settle my DD before the trial class - we could watch the first 5 minutes, and the last 5 minutes. But this was only for the trial class. At the end of term (or half term) most dance schools (and gymnastics) do a show class where parents can watch it all. Covid has disrupted this, however. I haven't seen my DC swim, dance or do gymnastics in 18 months. Perhaps the martial arts school usually does something similar in normal times though?

My DS has started karate as an after school club in his class bubble. Of course, I can't watch that - as it's at school. However I did turn up early to pick him up one week and saw it all taking place (doors wide open due to covid). If I'd wanted I'm sure I could have watched, at a distance, from the car park each week.

Only you know what you're comfortable with. I'm a bit suspicious of behind closed doors - but as long as the organisers do something to mitigate it (e.g. trial observations/show weeks) I'm more comfortable that I was.

A lot can happen during the school day and also activities happening on school grounds (e.g. dance, sports) so is this martial arts place much different? If you have a gut feeling, follow that.

Most Martial Arts around here have a minimum age of at least 8, some 12. If kids can't concentrate for the duration of a 45min or 1hr class they ask parents to try again next year. If they're too young to learn a Kata or spa with an opponent what's the point of the class?
I wonder if the tots class is just messing about and a waste if time and money. Maybe his dad can start showing him some moves and he can start proper classes in a few years.

@Maggiesfarm

Four seems terribly young to be starting martial arts. Just my thoughts, I haven't come across any child that young who does it.

it's a great age to start!

I should add that I have always let a nervous/first time adult sit in...but a large portion of the time it just ends with the child shyly hugging mum/dad from the benches and not joining in. They leave early or just watch the entire class together and dont come back. Which is fine too!!