AIBU to not want my son to do a class I can't observe?

[RainyNightInTallinn]

My DS4 is obsessed with martial arts. I found what appears to be a great Karate school which does classes for 3-12 year olds and looks really good. Only thing is they say parents can't observe the classes, not even the free trial class. They said it's to develop self-esteem and protect the privacy of all students.

Problem is, I feel uncomfortable just taking my shy 4-year-old along and sending him in along for an hour without me ever having met these teachers, not knowing this school, etc. These people are total strangers to me. AIBU? Am I being overprotective? I know we essentially do the same thing at normal school, but at school there are many adults, oversight, etc. at this karate school it's a couple who run it and teach groups of 4 kids at a time.

[drspouse]

YANBU at all. I find that many parents don't know the names and roles of the adults and older teens helping at their children's classes, and a 4 year old is unlikely to remember them either. This is a safeguarding hazard as it means you don't know who your child is talking about, who has just randomly greeted them in the supermarket/moved into your street/bumped into them at the school gate. Who are they saying helped them change into their spare clothes or cleaned up a cut?
Is the new adult this week a new instructor, someone's 14 year old who needs a lift afterwards or someone's non DBSed partner who gave them a lift?
Does your child actually know that adult who's greeted them or not?
Etc etc.

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

Since my ds turned 4 I've found this to be the case with every club unfortunately, they're all independent and no parents allowed. The first time he went to gymnastics by himself he cried and didn't want to join in so the second time they let me stay for part of the session to settle him in. It actually did improve his confidence loads and I think made it easier for him to start nursery. He's just changed to a new gym club and again I haven't been allowed to observe a class. It does worry me and I'm quite paranoid at the best of times about him being out of my care (I've never used a baby sitter other than my mum for example). But what can you do? It's either let him go by himself or don't do the club sadly and I don't want to stop him doing something he enjoys so much. I just have to hope and trust that he will tell me if there's a problem.

[NeverDropYourMooncup]

I found that DD2 was a bit of a wally if I was visible at her martial arts class at that age, so I would take DD1 somewhere else for the hour.

DP used to teach group guitar lessons and he found the behaviour was much worse when the Mums decided to treat it as a spectator sport. But then again, he'd grown up with little league football teams where parents were banned in the 1980s because of a punch up between Mums on the pitch because they couldn't control themselves when their children had a disagreement about who should be passed the ball or that it wasn't fair/a direct attack on their baby when somebody tackled them fairly.

These days, everybody wants to spend their time on their phones, too, which adds in the complication of their taking photos including other children, whether it's been explained to them it's not allowed or not (photos banned? But it's MY CHILD yes and the fifteen others who aren't that you could also be getting shots of for innocent or not innocent reasons and potentially endangering )


I'd ask about police checks/DBS equivalents, insurance, talk to them, see what your feelings are and then be content with a drop and run as the best option.

[edwinbear]

I have no experience of martial arts, but DD started gymnastics at 3 and parents weren't allowed in. We were OK with it as it's well known locally for being a good club, with long waiting lists and DD was a very confident child. It does annoy me a bit though, that towards the end of her gymnastics 'career' she'd moved into a squad, whereby we were handing over £100 a month and I had no idea what she doing in her sessions, nor what she was capable of doing as a result of them - I have zero clue what we gained out of the £££ we handed over. For all I know, they spent 6 hours a week playing British bulldog and I'd be known the wiser.

Across both DC, we also do athletics, rugby, netball and swimming and we're welcome to watch these, so I'm not quite sure why it seems to be standard in some sports, but not others, for parents not to be allowed to watch. Maybe it's easier in outdoor sports and with swimming, I suppose their faces are in the water and parents observe from quite some distance in the viewing gallery so not so much of a distraction.

[TheVolturi]

I would not be happy with this either.

[Bibidy]

I don't think it's unreasonable for parents not to be able to watch sessions, but I'm a bit surprised this approach works for 4 year olds as many would be nervous to be left and as a result would not be able to attend these clubs.

[Floogal]

Be wary of martial arts clubs that don't let people in to watch. Usually sign of a McDojo

[drspouse]

My point is more about parents never being allowed in/meeting staff and being introduced,, rather than not watching. Even pre COVID I've enquired about some children's classes that won't let parents in even briefly.

[Undertheoldlindentree]

Quite normal not to be allowed to watch ballet, gymnastics etc. This was in the UK. Sometimes a tiny window near the door that all parents tried to squeeze into view of. Must have been disconcerting as teacher soon brown-papered over it. Was usually a parent audience session every term or so to see progress.

I think it's reasonable to ask to watch to see how your child settles in, though thinking back to settling into reception class at school, parents don't stay as the children would keep going to them.

[pleasedonttextmyman]

unless you run a survey I don’t think you can say it’s not normal with any authority.

I’m not sure how well a parent without experience in martial arts would be able to determine how well a class is taught.

you don't need to be a martial art expert to have an opinion on a class teaching a 4 year old, it's pretty obvious.

Do YOU teach a martial art class banning parents? Do you actually know any?

[merrymouse]

I understand that there are reasons why parents aren't allowed to watch ballet, gymnastics etc, but it should be possible to strike a balance where parents have an opportunity to see what they are paying for and judge the quality of the class.

[Looubylou]

We had the same problem, no local classes would allow parents in. I think my son was 6. We did let him start, but on the second class there were lots absent, and he was asked to work with a tutor on his own, he refused to join in, and waited to be picked up. That was the end of that. His dad was very cross with him and said he couldn't go back. I, however, could see how he might feel uncomfortable.

[FawnFrenchieMum]

Its a tough one, my daughter started dance at 2, when she started they didn't let parents in (I knew lots of older kids that had attended for years so wasn't concerned by this). She went in happily, we got regular photos and videos on the closed parents facebook page and would be invited in once every half term to watch. It all worked well. Then a few months later, after a few new parents complaints she changed the rules and let new parents in. DD was crying every week that other mums were in but I wasnt (felt backwards going in after her doing it independently). In the end I had to start going in to get her in and then she would keep coming and sitting with me. In the end we left and went elsewhere. This was one of the reasons.

[TubeOfSmarties]

I don’t think there’s anything weird in parents not being encouraged/allowed to sit in as a norm. There are several reasons why it could be problematic for those running the classes. If you / your little one aren’t ready yet for activities that don’t have you along, then that’s not the right one just now, your choice.

That said, I do think they ought to let you sit in for one session if you’ve asked to do so.

[lostinthejungle22]

Hey, I'm from Tallinn originally :) If that is where you are, it doesn't surprise me at all, things are a little more lax over there, people generally don't have "abuse" and "grooming" as their first thought. The best thing to do is talk to other parents and see what they say, since I'm sure there won't be much in the online reviews, have a look on facebook, maybe there is a group? You could take your kid to a trial lesson at a few places, and talk to parents if they know anything about that school or another. Word of mouth is key. Of course you should always trust your gut, and if this just feels so wrong to you, don't do it. I'd be heartbroken I can't watch my kid (only sometimes!), and be proud of them and their progress.

[Yummymummy2020]

Usually at that age places want parents watching in the sense they can take the kids aside or help if they are running wild. That is just my experience. I see the idea of not having parents there and the reasoning but I wouldn’t like it either. I plan to put my kids in but I’ll want to watch when they are that age for sure.

[TopOfTheHour]

I went in for years and just sat and read a book mostly.
Find somewhere else

[Spudina]

My DDs have been in swimming lessons since they were 3. We are not allowed to stay except for one watching week a term. It works really well as the kids aren’t spending all lesson waving at Mum and Dad. They are now doing boxing (weird but true) and are a bit older but I don’t stay for that either. What I saw of the coach explaining the safety, I liked. I let him get on with his job. Maybe that’s lax of me.

[pleasedonttextmyman]

In many places, parents will spend the hour the nose on their phone anyway, and the ones who really are a disturbance will be asked to leave.

Huge difference from telling parents that it's preferred if the children don't see their parents, and banning them from the very first lesson.

[Itsanewdah]

Are there any clubs where parents are allowed? I never had a club where parents are allowed to watch, apart from toddler classes. Swimming, dancing, athletics etc - all without patents.
Football and rugby seems to expect parents being on the sidelines (mine don’t do that), but to be honest that is really not great from what I hear (kids being pressured by adults).

[pleasedonttextmyman]

Spudina

Maybe that’s lax of me.
I don't believe it is, but the instructor gave you confidence because you were not banned from the start, that's the whole point.

[merrymouse]

I don't think the OP wants to attend every class.

The issue is needing an opportunity to assess whether it is value for money/suitable.

That isn't such a problem if you know lots of other children of various ages who attend the same club/school, or if there are regular recitals/classes that parents can watch.

[toughdaay]

My DS went to one at a similar age that had a tv feed to the waiting room where parents sat. Maybe that's a good compromise? I mean it's possibly not happening at the moment but maybe some schools offer something similar?

[reluctantbrit]

I think no parents is better for the children as I have seen too many classes where the parents would just create a low level of disruption or even worse interfere with the teaching,

But I do would expect to be able to watch in a trial lesson to see what they do and how the children relate to the teacher.

DD had gymnastics and they did an open lesson before each school holidays where parents could sit and watch, the teacher was strict and made it subject to parental behaviour.

[EleanorOlephantisjustfine]

A dbs certificate is no guarantee of anything. I personally wouldn’t leave such a young child at a class where I couldn’t see what was going on.