AIBU to think that all men are a bit shit?

[Vitallyli]

I love DH, he's intelligent, generous, loves me, our DS, our dog, my family, he's not a cheater, not a gambler, but he also has low self esteem, can get paranoid about me cheating, can get depressed, drinks more than I think is okay, we are in our mid 30s, can shout at me sometimes, doesn't help me around the house much would rather make me a massage. He tells me compliments daily though, boosted my self esteem after birth for which I'll be eternally grateful. I hope I paint a fair picture. AIBU to think that all men are flawed and there is no perfect relationships and women have to put up with one thing or another or is there a beautiful loving, caring and respectful relationships out there?

If you're not happy with some of the things your DP does, then you need to address it with him OP. Of course you can't say "All men are ..." any more than you can say "All women are ..."

I think some of you are missing the point.

It’s not so much that “all men are any more shit then women” intrinsically.

But I do think quite a lot of men are fairly shit to be in long term relationships or cohabiting with.

Because society has been structured for millennia to benefit men at the expense of women and while it’s changing, a lot of men subconsciously still see themselves as top dog in a household and act accordingly.

The question isn’t really whether men are shit in themselves, the question is whether a woman actually benefits more than she loses by setting up home with one.

I would argue personally that aside from the advantage of having more household money in nine cases out of ten the answer is no.

Men are lovely and fine on their own terms and in their place but they are often a bit of a burden to live with and on a cost/benefit analysis often not worth the grief.

All people have a few shit qualities.

I'm certainly more flawed than my DP

@thepeopleversuswork

I think some of you are missing the point.

It’s not so much that “all men are any more shit then women” intrinsically.

But I do think quite a lot of men are fairly shit to be in long term relationships or cohabiting with.

Because society has been structured for millennia to benefit men at the expense of women and while it’s changing, a lot of men subconsciously still see themselves as top dog in a household and act accordingly.

The question isn’t really whether men are shit in themselves, the question is whether a woman actually benefits more than she loses by setting up home with one.

I would argue personally that aside from the advantage of having more household money in nine cases out of ten the answer is no.

Men are lovely and fine on their own terms and in their place but they are often a bit of a burden to live with and on a cost/benefit analysis often not worth the grief.

Yes exactly that ! I think most men would have arranged their own household differently and don't appreciate being nagged into doing everything the woman's way. I can rephrase my question to is co-living a bit shit? But then I've got single female friends who want** babies, families, being loved, companionship and are lonely without these things.

I can rephrase my question to is co-living a bit shit?

Yes exactly. To which my answer is a resounding YES.

Love men to bits and wouldn't want to be without them.

But I hate living with them and I think as a general rule and where affordable, women and children do far better living independently from men.

Yes exactly that ! I think most men would have arranged their own household differently and don't appreciate being nagged into doing everything the woman's way.

Well, a household should be run jointly. Decisions on how to arrange your household should be made together.
I ever have and never will 'nag' ( awful misogynistic term btw) my DH to do something. We decide together how to approach something and sometimes that means compromising. I certainly don't think that everything should be done my way.

@OneGlamMama

I'll drink to the all men are shit

Soon to be divorcing as I've basically been a single mother since son was born.

So when your son is a man he will also be shit then?

Well, a household should be run jointly. Decisions on how to arrange your household should be made together.

Indeed it should be. But it still very often isn't these days. A large proportion of men still haven't really adapted to a truly equitable living situation. You're right to hate the word "nag" but a lot of men still don't pull their weight domestically or on the chilldcare front and they regard it as an incursion into their freedom to have a woman pull them up on this.

The ideal and the reality here are still quite far apart for a lot of couples.

I like co living. I was lonely when I lived alone and didn't always have the motivation to eat well or keep the place clean and tidy. I like living with my husband and I miss him when he's away.

@thepeopleversuswork

Well, a household should be run jointly. Decisions on how to arrange your household should be made together.

Indeed it should be. But it still very often isn't these days. A large proportion of men still haven't really adapted to a truly equitable living situation. You're right to hate the word "nag" but a lot of men still don't pull their weight domestically or on the chilldcare front and they regard it as an incursion into their freedom to have a woman pull them up on this.

The ideal and the reality here are still quite far apart for a lot of couples.

Oh I know. I've been in that situation. Never again. Before i married my husband I made sure we were on the same page with regards home-life

I know it's not always so simple but you do read plenty of threads where women are In relationships with hopeless men who they think will magically become domesticated once children come along. That rarely happens.

I'm curious what flaws you put up with. Not putting toilet seat down as someone has mentioned (I guess for some this may be important), what else?

Also to everyone here, "are all men a bit shit" in the title was to attract traffic and is ironic, sorry if it offended so many people. This also didn't mean that women are not.

[quote Porcupineintherough]**@feelingmehtoday* men are not supposed to show any negative emotion and very few positive ones. Therefore any man who does is broken and letting the side down. OP* no doubt thinks her dh should stiffen his upper lip, or possibly is annoyed that he is reluctant to seek help which he has been conditioned not to do because see point 1.[/quote]
Hence the higher male suicide rate. Very sad.

@thepeopleversuswork

I think some of you are missing the point.

It’s not so much that “all men are any more shit then women” intrinsically.

But I do think quite a lot of men are fairly shit to be in long term relationships or cohabiting with.

Because society has been structured for millennia to benefit men at the expense of women and while it’s changing, a lot of men subconsciously still see themselves as top dog in a household and act accordingly.

The question isn’t really whether men are shit in themselves, the question is whether a woman actually benefits more than she loses by setting up home with one.

I would argue personally that aside from the advantage of having more household money in nine cases out of ten the answer is no.

Men are lovely and fine on their own terms and in their place but they are often a bit of a burden to live with and on a cost/benefit analysis often not worth the grief.

Well. I definitely did not get this from the OP.

This is articulated in a very clear, balanced and respectful way.

The OP is not.

Men’s suicide rate isin’t higher.
Men are more violent than women, even in suicide.
So they are more likely to succeed.
We have mental health crisis, both women and men, happening.
It is not worse for men and by perpetuating this, women are gonna be forgotten when in comes to helping with mental health.

@Unfashionable

As my grandad always used to say, there was only ever one person who was perfect, and they crucified him.

that's quite a good summary.

It's not that men are shit, it's that the patriarchy is shit and men - yes all of them - grow up in a world that centres them over women and end up filled with male entitlement and male privilege that they dont even recognise that they have. Even the best of them.
How this manifests is dependant on their upbringing and nature. Some are definitely worse than others. But the world definitely makes more excuses for men than for women.

The question isn’t really whether men are shit in themselves, the question is whether a woman actually benefits more than she loses by setting up home with one.

only if she is with the wrong man (and vice-versa).

Many of us decided to "set up home" with their man for their own convenience and preferences, not to be a martyr. In short, makes my life easier, and happier too. 🤷

I'll drink to that OP.

My husband is better than most. Still shit in some fundamental ways that women would never get away with.

I think most men would have arranged their own household differently and don't appreciate being nagged into doing everything the woman's way.

WHO on earth would appreciate being nagged into doing everything?

(and it's so sexist to pretend that it's the woman job or personal preference to NAG, is that how you see us the minute you know we have a vagina?!?)

I think all people are shit but there are themes and I think a lot of men take the piss leaving most/all of the ‘wife work’ to the other half.

and I think a lot of men take the piss leaving most/all of the ‘wife work’ to the other half.

but equally, look at how many threads where the wife refuse any help, keep complaining if things are not done HER way, and boast about being so house proud and their amazing cleaning skills.
I am all for equality, but i have honestly never met one man proud of their cleaning skills, or who would remotely care if their mate left their laundry being darken on, or own a loo brush.

The stereotypes are still very strong. I find this so infuriating.

As above, all humans are defective in some way and can be annoying to live with at times.

Except my lovely man, he's just perfect! :)

Men’s suicide rate isin’t higher.

I'm afraid it is, and has been for decades. 3x higher than the female suicide rate. Linked to men being discouraged from a young aged from talking about feelings and told to "be strong" etc. I do know what I'm talking about having worked extensively in male mental health services.

Feel free to do your own research.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20190313-why-more-men-kill-themselves-than-women

[quote feelingmehtoday]Men’s suicide rate isin’t higher.

I'm afraid it is, and has been for decades. 3x higher than the female suicide rate. Linked to men being discouraged from a young aged from talking about feelings and told to "be strong" etc. I do know what I'm talking about having worked extensively in male mental health services.

Feel free to do your own research.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20190313-why-more-men-kill-themselves-than-women[/quote]
The point the pp made was that the attempted suicide rate is much the same, it's just that men finish the job more often than women do.