Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

I very much doubt any man is interested in knowing your bra size.

Really? Have you ever met a man?

YANBU, OP. I would not like this and I'm an adult woman. As a teenage girl I would have been mortified. There's no reason for them to be there, and it's intimidating to lots of women and girls (although obvs not the cool ones on this thread who can't even imagine a man being lechy over a teenage girl's breasts, ffs.)

This drives me nuts. Maybe I’m just weird but when I shop for underwear, I like to do it without having to dodge around men. I find it weird. The women that stand there and make their husbands stand in other women’s way drive me nuts. It’s not considerate. But I’m probably in the minority. Just last week I left MS as I was trying to but shape-wear. A man was standing where I wanted to go to, I floated around hoping he might buzz off. Nope. I just left without.
So for you OP. I agree whole heartedly!
Men grow some balls and stop acting like fruit flies around your women when buying personal or intimate items! There I said it.

Q the abuse from MN!

Blimey, the excuses that some women will give so that their men can be present in women's space. Pathetic!

I totally understand OP. My dds would have been the same at that age

I get your point op, obviously you don't want men banned as such for the many reasons listed by pps, and no matter how body confident you are and how open you are with your dc, teenage girls are going to be embarrassed buying bras, especially their first one. By this age most girls will have been leered at, had sexual stuff shouted at them in the street, and in many cases been groped by men who look very similar to the men sitting benignly in the women's underwear dept. I used to work in a lingerie section in a department store, and can assure you that we regularly had problems with men hanging around unnecessarily or passing by frequently to try and catch a glimpse of embarrassed young girls with bras/knickers in their hands. I don't have a solution unfortunately, but i understand where you are coming from.

I wonder do the same women do the same when their men are buying condoms or viagra? 😂😂

@icedcoffees

What happens to teenage girls who don't have a mother to take them to try on bras?

Go with grandma, aunt, older female cousin, mum’s friend, friends mum? How many young girls are in the situation where their mum has sadly died and they don’t have any other female in their life? My DD used to work in a bra shop whilst at university and yes a lot of men wanted to go into the changing room or needed to hover nearby. It was part of her induction warning her to look out for them. It’s horrifying how weird and creepy a lot of men are.

@amiwastingmytime

I wonder do the same women do the same when their men are buying condoms or viagra? 😂😂

There is a difference between bras and viagra🙄

I am pretty sure they sit there in while their men try other clothes etc (can't really try underwear, can they 🙈)

Men grow some balls and stop acting like fruit flies around your women when buying personal or intimate items! There I said it.

@amiwastingmytime Or you could grow some balls yourself and not get so embarrassed over buying underwear?

A man was standing where I wanted to go to, I floated around hoping he might buzz off. Nope. I just left without.

“Excuse me please”

Is that so hard?

@TheCrowening it was for me yes. Each to their own.

There's absolutely no reason why they need to be sitting directly outside the changing rooms and it's high time that shops moved the seating area elsewhere

Have you never popped out of the changing room to ask a partner’s opinion? It’s a lot easier if they are waiting just outside.

Have you never popped out of the changing room to ask a partner’s opinion? It’s a lot easier if they are waiting just outside.

In my bra? With other blokes I don't know sat out there?

Nope.

YANBU. Some of the comments on this thread are a disgrace - it’s as if some people live in a bubble. As a previous poster said, breasts are the most fetishised body part. Any teenage girl will have been subjected to staring, lewd comments, possibly groped. Saying the OP is BU and passing her embarrassment or whatever to her daughter totally deflects from the oppressive male gaze that women and girls are constantly under. It’s not a dress shop where an opinion is needed. No need for men to be hanging around making your DD uncomfortable. And shaming you and her for feeling so is victim blaming.

coogee, I would IF the changing room itself is away from where my partner is. He wouldn't be sitting directly outside and I wouldn't think much of him if he did.

I'd happily trot out to where he was sitting to show him if I needed his opinion that badly. Or, if I was unable to shop without his opinion, I'd buy, take home, try on and return if not suitable.

Men being in women's space is just not ok with me. No way would I be hanging about outside the men's changing room to give an opinion. I accept that some women need to do this but again, not for me.

This is one of those views that can't really be transposed the other way though. Men's spaces are not at risk from women so it's not the same thing so matter how loudly the excusers protest.

TheCrowening, Yes, because men being asked to move for a woman are never, ever aggressive, are they?

Honestly...

I think it’s a good point to make sure we make our daughters comfortable buying bras/remove shame but I genuinely thought I was doing ok with this/not being prudish.
But when we go bra shopping, we either are shopping just us two/or just with women friends or family and see it as a women’s space/activity largely. If my husband and adult son are shopping with us we say “we’re going to get some bras now” and the boys will go off and do their own thing as they obviously won’t be buying any and don’t need to be there/would find it boring and honestly a bit weird. They wouldn’t even consider sitting outside the changing room why we have a bra fitting. We don’t always travel as a pack/aren’t joined at the hip.
Is that not normal? Do most of you treat buying your teen bras as a family occasion and think it’s necessary for dad/brothers/husbands to be there? I can’t imagine many teenage girls not finding that a bit awkward.

To be honest I'm so fed up of pervy letchy men that I no longer want any man in female spaces, and that includes anywhere near changing rooms. This is especially so in lingerie shops, because men have fetishised breasts so much that bra shopping is a bit more of a sensitive area for many than buying a skirt for example. As PPs have said, teen girls are frequently ogled and leered at by older men, so I can see how a self conscious teen would feel even more uncomfortable if there were men around when buying undies.

@amiwastingmytime

I wonder do the same women do the same when their men are buying condoms or viagra? 😂😂

If men are trying Viagra before they buy in the middle of a shop, they’ve got bigger problems than who’s waiting on the sofa!

@CliftonGreenYork

Some girls don't have a mother to take them shopping. So should men be banned from 'womens' stores then?

There's the occasional man taking his daughter, then there are unnecessary men. Not saying ban them, just no need for most of them to be there.

In my bra? With other blokes I don't know sat out there?

Nope.

I have. I’m not shy like that.

However, I believe the comment I was responding to was referring to changing rooms in general, not specifically lingerie.

@amiwastingmytime

I wonder do the same women do the same when their men are buying condoms or viagra? 😂😂

Or 10+ year olds in women's changing rooms at the gym.

I hate it

Boys that is

Have you never popped out of the changing room to ask a partner’s opinion? It’s a lot easier if they are waiting just outside.
No, never felt the need to ask a man's opinion on my clothes.

It's one off my pet hates, men in lingerie shops/departments - as it makes feel uncomfortable and I dislike lingerie shopping at the best of times.

I now shop online to avoid after last shopping trip when a couple spent 20 minutes discussing knickers and taking up so much room no-one else could get to the knickers. Before this I would always send DS/husband somehwere else and meet up with them.