Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

I'm surprised by that answer I must say.

You want to change the age of consent as a matter of urgency then if you feel that way. As it enables paedophilia.

I don't know how much support there would be for that tbh. As a law that in your view enables paedophilia that's massive for you I'd imagine.

If an adult fancies a 16 year old, is it not paedophile behaviour? Attraction to older adolescents is not considered pathological. Not that there isn't an imbalance of power and risk of harm to a young person in a relationship with a mature adult, but it isn't paedophilia.

I'm interested about what needs to be done about consent law in maths' view.

Paedophilia is just an appalling crime so. I mean I'd be campaiging like mad if I thought paedophilia was legal.

@NiceGerbil

I'm surprised by that answer I must say.

You want to change the age of consent as a matter of urgency then if you feel that way. As it enables paedophilia.

I don't know how much support there would be for that tbh. As a law that in your view enables paedophilia that's massive for you I'd imagine.

I still don't understand what you are implying!!! I AM NOT TRYING TO CHANGE AGES OF CONSENT, NOR AM I TRYING TO ENABLE PAEDOPHILIA. Somewhere we have got our wires crossed. If, for example, a 30 year old man has sex with a 16 year old, it is illegal and the man would be put on the sex offenders list for statutory rape (even if the 16-year old consents). I have no intention of changing that because it is paedophyllic in nature. People are making up a load of stuff that I did not say, so I am really confused. I agree that paedophilia is horrid and should indeed continue to be illegal. I never said anything to the contrary.

If, for example, a 30 year old man has sex with a 16 year old, it is illegal and the man would be put on the sex offenders list for statutory rape (even if the 16-year old consents).
I thought it was only illegal if the older person was in a position of trust?

How the fuck didd you all get from sofas too close to the changing room to age of consent and paedophiles😳
Are you all ok?

'.
If, for example, a 30 year old man has sex with a 16 year old, it is illegal and the man would be put on the sex offenders list for statutory rape (even if the 16-year old consents). I have no intention of changing that because it is paedophyllic in nature.'

What the fuck are you talking about?

Kowari is correct, and limited other situations as well.

Are you in the UK? You seem to be unfamiliar with a very very widely known law or age of consent.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

How the fuck didd you all get from sofas too close to the changing room to age of consent and paedophiles😳 Are you all ok?

Ha ha yes perfectly fine ta!

Agree the conversation has taken some unusual turns. Due to some posters having very strange ideas.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

How the fuck didd you all get from sofas too close to the changing room to age of consent and paedophiles😳 Are you all ok?

it's an MN thread about MEN, what do you expect 😂

@SchrodingersImmigrant

How the fuck didd you all get from sofas too close to the changing room to age of consent and paedophiles😳 Are you all ok?

😂 I'm glad someone asked this question...

@MakeMathsFun an adult being sexually attracted to a 16 year old is not a peaodophile. The age of consent is 16 in the UK (with the exception of if the adult is in a position of power over the young person)

A 16 year old is not a physical child.

Math can you expand on your comments re a man fancying a16yo is paedophilia?

Pleased and feeling tbf it's a particular couple of posters who have taken this thread waaay of course.

Via

'tribes in Africa' girls and women don't cover their breasts and it's all awesome. If women and girls here went topless then men would stop being so interested in them

Men look at boobs because of the tempting bras. If we wore plain bras then they would stop looking

They don't know any man who would ogle an under 18

Sam fox was 16 but hey. Maybe men didn't know her age and assumed a newspaper wouldn't publish paedophilia.

It's been a rollercoaster!

Currently trying to get to the bottom of the idea that fancying a16 year old is paedophilia, and so our consent laws must be a massive massive issue for them.

It's all super interesting!

@NiceGerbil

Math can you expand on your comments re a man fancying a16yo is paedophilia?

Aha! I see the confusion. Yes, I didn't know that "position of trust" is limited to a handful of positions, so I wrongly thought that any sex with a 16 year old by a 'significantly older' male was illegal - as 'trust' (I had thought) could be just about 'power'. I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing this out.

With my misunderstanding combined with your introduction of Sam Fox being 16 (posted by you Thu 29-Jul-21 18:25:23) I thought you were saying that it was inappropriate for a 16-year old to have been photographed for page 3. And I concurred, thinking it to be paedophile to lech. Then I got lost, and to even explain why would just waste everyone's time (even more!).

Nonetheless, regardless of what the law says (as different countries have different ages of consent), I still think that its a paedophile-like behaviour. Had I known my error, I would have said "paedophile-like".

Anyway, moving on, I think enough has been said, particularly with both of us misunderstanding each other. Sorry to all the other readers/participants!

I think that @Person23 sums up what I was originally trying to say before I supported Beowolf. Person23 on Fri 30-Jul-21 05:20:29 said, "Most teen girls are embarrassed by a lot of things - buying tampons/pads, underwear, the mere mention of possible boyfriends by relatives... A little embarrassment at that age is normal, and frankly something we all have to learn to cope with at some point. I was definitely embarrassed about buying tampons in front of boys/men as a teen, does that mean men should not have been allowed in shops that sell them? 🙄

And before anybody says it AGAIN - they were OUTSIDE of the changing rooms, not in them. Nothing could be seen. If the staff were asking her bra size loudly enough for people sitting outside to hear, that's a different issue in my opinion - and one to be addressed by the indiscreet staff not people waiting for their partners."

At last, back to the original discussion :)

Good night and farewell (I hope).

How the fuck didd you all get from sofas too close to the changing room to age of consent and paedophiles😳
Are you all ok?

Was just thinking the same I've just revisited the thread after a couple of days, and must admit I'm sat scratching my head here at posts too and slowly backing out of the thread lol Seems people have veered off into their own versions of events, little fantasy lands and Gawd knows what the heck else they're on about now

It was inappropriate for a 16yo to be on page 3. Having consensual sex with a boyfriend/ girlfriend is very different to appearing in a widely circulating newspaper on the page for hey chaps here's today's topless young woman for you to appreciate/ wank over.

Don't you think?

I'm interested to know where you are posting from. As you're not from the UK I assume, it would be useful to understand the context you are looking at all this from.

@Mockolate

How the fuck didd you all get from sofas too close to the changing room to age of consent and paedophiles😳 Are you all ok? Was just thinking the same I've just revisited the thread after a couple of days, and must admit I'm sat scratching my head here at posts too and slowly backing out of the thread lol Seems people have veered off into their own versions of events, little fantasy lands and Gawd knows what the heck else they're on about now

Well between you and me, a couple of posters with very unusual views indeed sent it waaay off on a tangent!

I mean if a poster says well. Covering up creates interest. If only women and girls would understand this and go around topless then men and boys would lose interest

Then they're going to get responses obviously!

@NiceGerbil,
I can’t believe this thread is still going to be honest 🤣

Just get rid of All sofas then so nobody can hang around women’s changing rooms and why not ask for photo ID as well.

Let’s move on .

I personally don't have issues with that.

I would have said to DD (and can understand why embarrassed I was at that age) go into changing rooms get measured and me and/ or assistant will bring some bras to try.

Easy!

Why did you assume the ID etc?

Just out of interest!

@NiceGerbil,
Yesterday in the news there was a horrendous story about a 12 year old child being in a sexual relationship with a 24 year old male and she gave birth to their child in hospital and the baby’s father was at the birth and didn’t think anything was wrong until the hospital called the police and he got arrested ( this was in USA) but is all over the news here in UK.

It just got me thinking that maybe we should question some things(situations) if we have a feeling that all is not as it seems .

Just get rid of All sofas then so nobody can hang around women’s changing rooms and why not ask for photo ID as well.

Yes.
Ban sofas.
#DownWithThisSortOfThing

I would have been totally chill with this at 15. I went to a girls school and only have sisters and I thought the attention I got from adult men was funny (and they were a bit sad). I was liberal and progressive and certainly no prude.
Fast forward a couple of years, a couple of sexual assaults, one rape, more catcalls and gropes than I can count plus a summer job in house of Fraser (not Ann summers) underwear dept and by 18 it’s not funny anymore. Fucking hate men loitering around womens changing areas. I totally don’t understand why “nice” men would think it appropriate and get pissed of by the privilege and audacity of both men and women who have the luxury of not having to think about it. It’s not like huge swathes of men being perverts or sexual offenders and huge swathes of women being victims is a secret. Not my Nigel though. There was a topshop in my university town where you had to go through a chicane of about 20 sofas of pisstaking youths.
I’ve skipped about 6 pages but men absolutely have to stop fettishising breasts and teenage girls before teenage girls become comfortable talking about their breasts in front of men.

[quote avamiah]@NiceGerbil,
Yesterday in the news there was a horrendous story about a 12 year old child being in a sexual relationship with a 24 year old male and she gave birth to their child in hospital and the baby’s father was at the birth and didn’t think anything was wrong until the hospital called the police and he got arrested ( this was in USA) but is all over the news here in UK.

It just got me thinking that maybe we should question some things(situations) if we have a feeling that all is not as it seems .[/quote]
I haven't seen that story.

Certainly Bradford etc girls really young were being taken for repeat abortions and no flags were raised by docs etc.

The total failure in all those areas of the blind eye turned by pretty much all authorities. The whistleblower was sacked.

Grooming continues in Bradford and I suspect other cities.

Off topic but s fucking disgrace.