To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

what a waste

Here’s a really good example of it, OP

Ice never heard a working mother say 'i didn't have children for someone else to raise them'.

£1,200 per month for my child who is 2 in full time nursery. Madness. I took a career break. Made sense for our family.

With DTs I could probably just have earned enough to cover two lots of nursery fees if I worked full time, but I would have found this hugely stressful. Getting two small babies to nursery and then having work to do after school, along with evening routines fir babies and very little sleep…
DH was travelling extensively internationally and could be away for weeks at a time, therefore not able to ‘help’.
In contrast, I have a young friend with a high flying career who is able to hire a full time nanny for her young twins, enabling her to carry on her career.

@crinklyfoil

Get a job is not helpful or conducive advice for anyone.

Why not? For some people it might not be the right answer, but it is something a person (woman) can change about their lives without changing another person.

@PrettyBlunt

£1,200 per month for my child who is 2 in full time nursery. Madness. I took a career break. Made sense for our family.

Not your partner?

Stuffin we all respect if you don't have DC you really do not understand just how challenging, lonely and hard it can be to raise children.

Some have additional needs etc. So I think your judgement is very unfair.

Realised my post about DM was confusing. My DF left her when she was near retirement not when she had retired. Her low paid job which she had kept all through our life was the best thing she could have done. Some of her friends had stayed a SAHP long after their DC had become adults.

With*

@crinklyfoil

Get a job is not helpful or conducive advice for anyone.

What, never?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers based on Danish figures and does not explain the gender pay gap prior to having children

It's all about choices but there does seem to be a prevailing opinion on here that if you're not all about climbing to the top of your profession, aiming for a 6 figure salary and working full time, then you're making the "wrong" choices

So true. Thatcher’s children have certainly fallen for the rhetoric that nothing matters more than working as many hours as you can for as much money as possible.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers no. I'm in a career I can step back into anytime I want to. It's a very sought after role.

I can get bank staff work at the click of a finger. I know also many employers I worked with over the years who have happily said just give them a call if I ever need a job.

I'm fortunate for that. My partner wouldn't be able to find a job so easily so what's the point.

@PrettyBlunt

Stuffin we all respect if you don't have DC you really do not understand just how challenging, lonely and hard it can be to raise children.

Some have additional needs etc. So I think your judgement is very unfair.

I wasn't being judgmental. I was stating why I think SAHP and WOP threads can get a bit heated.

But hey you have just confirmed the judgment about not having DC which means I can't comment on anything about SAHP and WOP despite the fact in RL us non parents and parents do discuss all things including DC, childcare costs etc

Your bias is evident OP when you talk about a SAHM being potentially beneficial to a family set up. If you'd written SAHP instead I would have no issue with it - depending on circumstances and the individuals involved it can be great, or it can be disastrous in the longer term. To be clear, other families' set ups are nothing to do with me, and I wouldn't judge (don't care enough to tbh).

I’ve lost count the number of threads I’ve read where marriages fail and the woman is screwed financially.

Yep, this. If you're happy and it all works out for you great, but there's so many women on here who end up screwed, stuck in abusive relationships with no escape route, no money, no self esteem, no options. Still, I don't see 'MN' being unpleasant to these SAHMs, but there's a lot of concern and frustration when women 'choose' to go that route and it doesn't seem like a real choice, just the default that their work doesn't matter while the man automatically keeps all the cards.

@Brefugee you’ve told me my argument is stupid and ill thought out but why?

Why is it a stupid and ill thought argument to point out some people won’t earn more than £1600 a month?

@ElliottSmithsfingers

Your bias is evident OP when you talk about a SAHM being potentially beneficial to a family set up. If you'd written SAHP instead I would have no issue with it - depending on circumstances and the individuals involved it can be great, or it can be disastrous in the longer term. To be clear, other families' set ups are nothing to do with me, and I wouldn't judge (don't care enough to tbh).

Oh, this is so true. I couldn't put my finger on what was bugging me so much and it's this. The default assumption that it should be the woman who stays at home and sacrifices pension/independence etc when there's no reason it can't or shouldn't be the man if that works best for a family.

I don’t think I have a bias at all. I’m happy for either parent to stay at home but I haven’t noticed any particular nastiness towards sahds on here, probably because there aren’t many threads about them.

It’s all about context. I don’t see criticism per se directed at sahm’s, just the same with criticism of working parents.

[quote PrettyBlunt]@OnlyFoolsnMothers no. I'm in a career I can step back into anytime I want to. It's a very sought after role.

I can get bank staff work at the click of a finger. I know also many employers I worked with over the years who have happily said just give them a call if I ever need a job.

I'm fortunate for that. My partner wouldn't be able to find a job so easily so what's the point. [/quote]
My point is I see so many SAHM posts claiming why they were the ones to stay home- v v rare to read the roles reversed. I just find it odd that it’s always women whose careers can halt- I find it disingenuous and would have far more respect if someone just said “I wanted to be a SAHP for a bit”..

I've always thought it was jealousy. I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to be a sahm. I only went back to work part time when my youngest dc started secondary school.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz i took 3 years out of work (against my will but due to circumstances) for my DC and it pretty much wrecked my mental health as it was never ever part of my life plan.

Frankly? Everyone should be free to make their own informed choices, and (assuming NT children) including any combination of SAHP, WOH, part-time (either and/or both partners) etc etc

But. Legally and financially it only really makes sense to do this if you are married, have joint finances, and a plan about pensions. And what happens if everything goes tits-up for some reason. That is often missing.

i worked full time from both of my two children turning 6 months.
All of my working salary went on childcare (nursery fees).
when my youngest was about to turn 5, my ex husband left me for a collegue and they are now married and have a baby.

My ex husband used the fact that I worked to his advantage in the divorce courts, the judge considered that being a single mum to a 4 and 5 year old was not a bar to me earning an enormous salary in the future so my ex husband ended up paying me less.

my big mistake was somehow agreeing to a financial model when we were married where my own salary was the only think used to pay for childcare. in many ways i made things worse for myself by agreeing to that - he could walk out scott free and ended up able to see our children when suited him and free to have another child with the woman he had secretly been having an affair with.

so in my view earning when your children are babies is not any kind of protection in the "husband walked out" scenario. if anything had i been a stay at home mum my ex husband would have had to pay me more on our divorce on the principle of me having given up my career to raise our kids which the courts always take into account.

and what i learned was not to be a doormat and agree to use all my money for childcare, it just made him cheating so much easier for him.

Career progression may be a MC way of putting it, but it can apply in all sorts of jobs. A hairdresser builds up clients over time and time off work starts you back off at 0. My hairdresser worked Sundays - just Sundays - for about 4 years. She could do it because she had the long relationship with the salon and had clients who stayed with her. In other jobs it might be that those who worked there longer have more chance of getting school friendly hours/shifts or advancing a grade over time and getting more £/h.

Yes some women are too accepting that men earn more.

This differential is only widened when women take years out of the labour market.

Some women then find there skill set has been eroded and they struggle to get back into work.

There is also the gender role it models for the next generation. I have managed too many men who believe it’s a women’s role, even in the workplace, to look after them. Assume women will do the secretarial roles, organise any group food event, clear up etc etc. There he most sexist man i have ever managed told all working mums he had a SAHM. Enough of keep any mother in the workplace

Why don’t we also have stay at home dads in the same number?

There is of course freedom of choice. Women should (and are) free to do as they please.