To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

@SorryWoman

It feels infantilising and depressing for a woman just to stay at home and raise children and the UK should get into line with the rest of Europe and subsidise childcare more

Sadly not a vote winning initiative - let’s vote for baby boomers to keep their 5 bed homes whilst receiving state social care instead

[PuffItsGone]

I’m not anti SAHM, but it gets my back up when they claim being a SAHM is a full time job because they:
A) do the cleaning (me too)
B) prep all the meals (me too)
C) do the family admin (me too)

But I also have a full time job…

It’s the admin one that really really grinds my gears. If your family has enough admin that it’s taking up half a working week you probably need to hire a family PA

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

@PuffItsGone

I’m not anti SAHM, but it gets my back up when they claim being a SAHM is a full time job because they:
A) do the cleaning (me too)
B) prep all the meals (me too)
C) do the family admin (me too)

But I also have a full time job…

It’s the admin one that really really grinds my gears. If your family has enough admin that it’s taking up half a working week you probably need to hire a family PA

They mean it’s not shared- if you’re working then it should be shared otherwise don’t be a martyr

[SimonJT]

@WoodPell

I always laugh at the raising-their-own-kids comments. I work 3 days a week and I am certainly run ragged enough on the other 4 to feel we're "raising" DS.

I'm another one who is surprised when SAHM say that childcare for one is their whole wage, outside London. Our nursery FT is about £900 a month with tax free childcare (£11kish) which would be a really low full time salary (35 hours per week at £9 is £16,380).

It isn’t £16,380, its £14,780, thats a big difference when you’re on a low wage.

[Nohomemadecandles]

I thought it was quite the opposite. Staying at home is a harder full time job than a full time job and therefore your OH should work full time AND do all the housework , shopping, cooking...

[Whiskycav]

@OnlyFoolsnMothers not every mother who works full time has a partner.

I don't.

[Mrs08]

Personally, I did not become a sahm through choice and I think that's true for many sahms.

Accidental sahm if you like! :)

I've had periods of working pt whilst my dc were young but events have always rather conspired against me.

Eldest ds1 was very poorly as a baby/toddler/pre schooler. Working would have been impossible due to no sleep, hospital appts Dr's appts etc.

4 pg losses.

Surprise ds2!

Then dh got 2 promotions which meant a huge change in our family life.

Then my dad died very unexpectedly and mum got really ill. I'm now her carer.

It is what it is. I do voluntary work, I study. I don't think my children think I'm a poor role model.

Financially there is no doubt I am more vulnerable than a woman who works but other than having all savings and investments in my name and half my dhs very good pension if he left theres not much I can do about that.

I would not have children with someone without being married. The legal protection it offers women is why so many men don't want to do it.

[MinesAPintOfTea]

I thought that the suggestions that SAHM get a job are mostly driven by commenters seeing a woman unhappy and in a vulnerable position. SAHMs who are happy with their lives don’t tend to start threads about it.

FWIW being an employed mum meant that when STBXH suddenly became overtly abusive I could pick DS up, walk out, get him out the house and carry on with our lives without anything collapsing because I had an independent income. If I had still been a SAHM I would have been in a much more vulnerable position

Similarly around having a network of adults around you - a decent job gives you the chance to meet adults and make friends. Much harder to do when you are at home alone.

For those SAHMs who are in happy stable marriages, the family is financially comfortable, with proper sharing of finances and free time, and a network of friends, a job might not add much. But that would be an unbearably smug thread

[TillyTopper]

YABU, I don't think there is anti-SAHM feeling here. Personally I (f) was the high earner so DP (m) did an excellent job of being a SAHP for a bit. Why be wrapped up in what you think others think? Stop dwelling on it and do what works for you.

[Iwonder08]

Perfectly fine subject to two conditions :

1. it is a family decision. Often a man is just informed that's what a woman decided to do and he is essentially forced into being a sole breadwinner. I've seen it here and in real life quite a few times
   
2. as long as a woman stops relentless complaining about how she is bored, tired and how her husband's life is so much easier because he just sits in a nice office and drinks coffee where she has no spare minute

[Eyjafjallajokulldottir]

A lot of it stems from jealousy - many parents would love to stay at home and resend having to work, so they convince themselves that they're somehow morally superior for going out to work.

Nope, pity maybe.

For others they're unable to understand that not everyone is like them - not everyonewantsa career.

Just like you seem incapable of understanding that not everyone is like you? Not everyone wants to stay at home all day. What a waste.

[anon12345678901]

The problem with using the IVF post as an example was the household had money but could not afford to give away 10k. Now not many families could afford that and it's not a case of the SAHM getting a job. I also noticed many posters saying 'it's his money' well no it's not, it's family money so decisions should be made together.
I've noticed SAHM can get a bashing at times especially along the lines of it's not your money, when in reality, it really is. It's money earnt for the household.

[WoodPell]

@Iwonder08

Perfectly fine subject to two conditions :
1) it is a family decision. Often a man is just informed that's what a woman decided to do and he is essentially forced into being a sole breadwinner. I've seen it here and in real life quite a few times
2) as long as a woman stops relentless complaining about how she is bored, tired and how her husband's life is so much easier because he just sits in a nice office and drinks coffee where she has no spare minute

My work days sitting in an office drinking coffee are waaaay easier than my days off!

[SorryWoman]

Obviously running a hoover around, making the evening meal, doing a load of laundry and paying a bill doesnt all add up to the 9 hours it takes to commute and do a full day at the office so I think its grating when SAHMs are told to make sure their working partners "pull their weight" by doing some cooking or cleaning. If that's your full time job then you should do it.

[crinklyfoil]

Get a job is not helpful or conducive advice for anyone.

[Ghosttile]

I think the ‘poor role model’ stuff is bollocks. DC seeing their mother treated with respect is important. Seeing their mother happy with the life they’re living is important. That might be as a SAHM, a full time working mother or anything in between.

[TheGenealogist]

I also think that there is a general feeling from many posters on here that women should want a "career". Not just a job to pay the bills, but a career, with progression, and responsibility and all the rest of it.

Not everyone wants that, whatever their sex. Many people have a "work to live" rather than "live to work" mentality and are the ones who are out the door the second their shift or working day ends. Nothing wrong with that, it's different priorities. People who are not working full time, or even part time, are the ones who are volunteering and keeping foodbanks and charity shops running.

It's all about choices but there does seem to be a prevailing opinion on here that if you're not all about climbing to the top of your profession, aiming for a 6 figure salary and working full time, then you're making the "wrong" choices.

[leafygarden42]

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

Yeah - right - whatever

Who exactly is going to carry on working if it's going to make them miserable and poor? Hmmmm

[Brefugee]

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

along with other PP i am rolling my eyes so hard at this that i can see out of the back of my head permanently.

MN doesn't hate SAHM. Posters do, rightly, take stupid, ill-thought aruguments like the OP to task.

[LolaSmiles]

I’m not anti SAHM, but it gets my back up when they claim being a SAHM is a full time job because they:
A) do the cleaning (me too)
B) prep all the meals (me too)
C) do the family admin (me too)

But I also have a full time job…

It’s the admin one that really really grinds my gears. If your family has enough admin that it’s taking up half a working week you probably need to hire a family PA confused
I agree with you. DH and i both work part time and share the load at home, but I can't stand the "I'm a cook, I'm a cleaner, I have life admin to do" arguments. It's a list of tasks that most adults do.

I also can't stand how many threads have people arguing that millions of other adults should lose their right to cohabit without legally joining their affairs because some people drift into having kids and giving up their financial security only to complain that their boyfriend's house isn't theirs in the event of a split.

I don't mind whether someone is a SAHM/WOHM/SAHD/WOHD as long as it's an informed decision

[pinkcircustop]

@Eyjafjallajokulldottir is exactly the type of poster I’m on about 😂

[leafygarden42]

That certainly isn't why I've always worked.

[Pebbledashery]

Another one of these threads. Do you not think they've been done to death already.

[Stuffin]

I don't have DC so get a completely different judgement from some women 😁.

Having no beef in either camp I think it comes down to a mix of the following:-

1. Some women want to justify being a SAHP rather than just saying I don't want to work and be at home full time. Stop trying to justify it as it's plainly clear it's a lifestyle choice which is fine.

1. It's often stated that the cost of childcare doesn't cover my wage so it's pointless working. The frustration is that it isn't just a simple equation. You get pension contributions and it's easier to get a job when employed and you really don't know what the future holds. If you don't care then fine but lots of people who have been stung in older life are simply passing their experience down.

1. It can skew relationships which may not become apparent for many years. My DF was always on to my DM about giving up work and if she had she would have been stuffed when he left after she had retired and wanted to leave her with nothing. She had a low pay job which saved her sanity as well as meaning she could still pay the bills and food.

1. You get the posts about how being a SAHP is far harder than any full time job. Well quite frankly that is just a goady post which is saying they are better than a working parent so of course that thread descends into personal insults.

Most people though that are happy with their life choices don't need to justify them on a forum or in RL and don't care what someone else does as long as they then don't moan about it

[PuffItsGone]

@OnlyFoolsnMothers you’re assuming I have a partner able to take on their share? A naive assumption to make