To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

[Agadorsparticus]

Almost every mum I know works, that goes for my Mum and MIL and Grandmothers (before retirement) too. It would be unusual in my circle to be a woman who doesn't work. It would be a luxury that we couldn't afford, we'd need to work even if PT.

[Treacletoots]

Why doesn't mum aspire to earn as much as dad before they have children so this isn't an issue. That's my ultimate issue here.

[Hardbackwriter]

@pinkcircustop

YANBU. It’s jealousy.

They’ll say it’s because of career or regaining independence or whatever but when they’re judgemental and nasty about it that’s just a convenient excuse because they wish they were able to be at home raising their own child too.

And.. ding ding ding! We have the goady post about 'raising your own children' that'll drag this whole thread down!

[maddening]

Once dc are at school it definitely is a lifestyle choice, when there are no SEN or complex medical issues involved in 2 Parent families.

In those cases, posters who have complaints around money, doing most of housework and childcare etc don't hold water imo. No problem with people taking these life choices but you do so when there is no requirement not to work, that it is ridiculous to complain if you cannot afford to live in one wage then choose not to have a second income. Where one parent is working full time to support you when you could work and dc are at school then yes, they should expect not to do housework.

[WhatsTheTimeMrCat]

Oh, and not everyone works out everything in advance. In an ideal world, I’m sure everyone has a spreadsheet working out how they can afford children and childcare, but in real life, a lot of people get a shock when they start costing it up, and it gets complicated when you start balancing it against potentially reduced hours. And what if you have twins? Or your pregnancy wasn’t planned?

[alrightfella]

I've always thought it was jealousy. I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to be a sahm. I only went back to work part time when my youngest dc started secondary school.

However it totally killed my career. But I wouldn't change it for the world as I lived every second but I realise I am lucky to have a supportive dh so I could do that. But I very much just have a job with no career progression these days.

I do also think that having family to do childcare makes a difference to people returning to work. We have never had any family help, all childcare including babysitters has been paid for. This makes a huge difference when making that decision I think.

[Dogsandbabies]

I don't really care if someone makes a decision to stay at home with their children. I do however find the endless threads of women who have made that choice and now want to leave and are asking for benefits advice really jarring.

For what it's worth I actually think it is really hard work staying at home with kids.

[ChristmasShearwater]

I think women should aim to earn as much as or more than their partners and not be reliant on a man

So a female hairdresser (say) shouldn't have a child with, say, a male accountant?

A good relationship (and you should only bring a child into a good one) will be one where finances are joint and each respects the others' role. So if one parent chooses to stay at home with DC for a while, or go part time, the other values their contribution and is happy to fund their child being cared for by their partner.

[Hardbackwriter]

@WhatsTheTimeMrCat

Thing is, I think “childcare will take all my wage” is a clumsy phrase. I suspect most women who write that mean that the cost of childcare equals or exceeds their earnings and therefore there would be no overall increase to the family income if they worked. Now, obviously for some people they are happy to work anyway for other reasons like career progression, pension and childcare being a relatively short term cost. But I can definitely understand that other women might feel differently and prefer to stay at home if they’re not making a net profit from working.

I think people also often say it when it isn't literally true, to mean 'the financial benefit of working isn't enough for me to do it', which is absolutely fine and reasonable as a position but confuses matters too. I was puzzled by how many women I knew apparently earned less than the around £800-£1000 full-time nursery costs around us even though they did jobs that I know pay more than that until I realised that they didn't literally mean it would take all their wages, they meant it didn't feel worth it to them.

[crinklyfoil]

@mynameiscalypso but that’s a very middle class sort of view.

Many jobs have no benefits, lots of stress and poor pay.

[Noterook]

Most threads start out okay and then descend into both sides getting defensive. I don't think either side covers themselves in glory, and I don't think SAHMs get more of a battering than those who work on here.

[crinklyfoil]

@Treacletoots

Why doesn't mum aspire to earn as much as dad before they have children so this isn't an issue. That's my ultimate issue here.

Realistically that will never happen for some couples. It won’t for us, even though I have higher levels of education.

I had no idea how much DP earned for ages. I thought I was the higher earner and I kept offering to treat him

[TempleofZoom]

@crinklyfoil

childcare will take all my wage- nope it’s a joint expense

I do get this one though.

Let’s say you have two working parents. Dad earns £2500 after tax etc and mum earns £1100. Childcare for two children is £1500.

So yes if mum pays for half the childcare she’s still making £750 ‘profit’ but a relationship shouldn’t really work like that. It still means that the family unit operates at a loss.

The problem is its women who pay the price.
In terms of loss of job, pension and in many relationships loss of power and autonomy.
Her future is reliant on her partner agreeing.
No way would I hand that over to another person.

[Fizbosshoes]

Agree with @WhatsTheTimeMrCat although childcare is a joint expense if it's more than one person (regardless of gender) is earning then the family as a whole will be worse off. Some people might choose that and know it might be a temporary solution and that career progression will make it worth it. If they worked in a NMW job or there was scope for career progression I can see why you wouldn't.

I also think theres quite a big difference between SAHP of babies, toddlers and primary age children where practically there is much more childcare involved, to SAHM of (NT) teenagers.

[Noterook]

@pinkcircustop

YANBU. It’s jealousy.

They’ll say it’s because of career or regaining independence or whatever but when they’re judgemental and nasty about it that’s just a convenient excuse because they wish they were able to be at home raising their own child too.

This a good example of the kind of unnecessary comment that triggers threads changing direction.

[crinklyfoil]

I’ve seen so many threads where SAHMs are barked at to get a job. It’s horrible. So rude.

[ElizaDoolots]

I haven’t noticed a particular bias against SAHMs on MN. I think there’s equal criticism of SAHMs and working mums, as @pinkcircustop has demonstrated. You’ll never please everyone, and don’t need to, so don’t worry what trolls on MN say about your life choices.

[Noterook]

@crinklyfoil

I’ve seen so many threads where SAHMs are barked at to get a job. It’s horrible. So rude.

And a lot of the times the answer will be along the lines of- at least I'm raising my own children, why have children if you don't want to look after them, it's detrimental to young children to be in childcare full time etc. Most threads until derailed are actually full of useful advice and support, for some people actually getting a job is not a wild suggestion.

[Sadiecow]

@pinkcircustop

YANBU. It’s jealousy.

They’ll say it’s because of career or regaining independence or whatever but when they’re judgemental and nasty about it that’s just a convenient excuse because they wish they were able to be at home raising their own child too.

Who is this "they"?

Why are the people that have a different opinion always jealous?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

@crinklyfoil

childcare will take all my wage- nope it’s a joint expense

I do get this one though.

Let’s say you have two working parents. Dad earns £2500 after tax etc and mum earns £1100. Childcare for two children is £1500.

So yes if mum pays for half the childcare she’s still making £750 ‘profit’ but a relationship shouldn’t really work like that. It still means that the family unit operates at a loss.

Work smart.
Yeah, temporary loss, but long term investment into cv, skills, better chsnce of getting a better job later, etc. Many people don't ever consoder these things.

Also. Can you evodence a thread where people said that sahms shouldn't have a say in finances? I assume you didn't start a whole thread for one person's opinion only

[AuntieStella]

We haven't had a SAHP/WOHP thread for a while.

Possibly because if the pandemic and the disruption to working lives.

But I think it's a nonsense that you say 'MN thinks' as if there was only one view here.

Hell, I've been WOHP full time, WOHP part-time and SAHP over the years, depending what's been going on. So I dont see a divide.

And I will post different ways depending on what issue the OP is posting. And yes, there are times when I think giving up WOH is a poor choice.

[Divebar2021]

YANBU. It’s jealousy

I think it suits you to think it’s jealousy. Maybe there are women in stressful jobs or low paying jobs that are envious but for many women they’d rather stab their own eyes out with a fork than be at home all the time. Some women actually have well paying, professional jobs they enjoy. I think with the advent of WFH many parents are finding a better balance of time at home too which may not have been the case before the pandemic.

I have to say you must be very new to MN OP If you haven’t seen any other threads on this topic…it’s like “ shoes in houses” - gets trotted out every month.

[crinklyfoil]

I’ve honestly never noticed that. There’s definitely the odd comment about raising own children and nurseries being horrible places but they are usually shouted down.

Obviously I don’t read every thread on MN though. But I can’t really understand why a family having a life which suits them is a problem.

[LemonTT]

@pinkcircustop

YANBU. It’s jealousy.

They’ll say it’s because of career or regaining independence or whatever but when they’re judgemental and nasty about it that’s just a convenient excuse because they wish they were able to be at home raising their own child too.

Judgemental and nasty, I wonder what that sounds like 🙄

[Worldwide2]

I'm a SAHM and iv never seen any v
Judgemental comments on mumsnet and their have been alot of threads. Tbh I see more judgement at working mums especially if they have to put children into childcare. That topic brings out some quite hurtful judgemental comments.