To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

[duckyla]

@Flossing I'm pretty sure someone referred to all the SAHMs at their dc's prep school who were married to men worth millions & people who didn't work for a salary but had investments & interests, etc And plenty have said they have their own income or safety net. Hence why I posted my post, that's all.

[pinkfanman]

I didn't think my scenario was so complicated - or so inflammatory. It would be nice to think everyone on min wage enjoyed their job and would do it for free (or pay to do it because it wasn't all about the money). Why so tetchy now? I'm sure someone needs this advice. Would you suggest she stays at a minimum wage job and pays a childminder more than her salary - given she will not be giving up career progression opportunities and her doing paid work rather than being a SAHM will be costing the household money.

[duckyla]

Is that to me? Make what work? If a women was on minimum wage or a care worker & she ends up getting a divorce my "expert" advice would be the same. Always include the higher earners pension in any financial settlement eg don't settle for more equity or maintenance & ignore the pension. I don't work in careers 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Sadiecow]

@pinkfanman

What would the expert advice be to a women who was on minimum wage, a care worker for example - no expectation or desire to have a promotion. How could she make this work?

Does it matter what a persons job is, or their desire for progression?

If the mother enjoys her job, wants to continue working that needs to be taken into account.

Working isn't just about financial gain,

[Flossing]

@duckyla

No again read what i say, i never said that nor intimated that, you seem to keep just writing statements i havent said

That's rich!

I simply said that the SAHMs on this thread were not representative of RL in terms of being married to millionaires & with various income streams.
Your reply was it's narrow minded & offensive to assume most SAHPs don't plan & then some nonsense about being kind. You then confirmed everyone you know is aware of risks.
I questioned whether they do understand the impact, again this was a point based on statistical evidence as opposed to your friendship group as often the working partners pension is excluded from the divorce settlement (I work in this "industry"). You again told me this was offensive because the people you know are aware.
I just don't agree that all women make their choices knowing those facts and risks as you believe. The more that do the better. And for the last time I'm taking statistically not about your mates!

Fyi no sahm on this thread have actually said they are married to millionaires. It's not always have low wages so can't afford childcare Vs millionaires.

[pinkfanman]

What would the expert advice be to a women who was on minimum wage, a care worker for example - no expectation or desire to have a promotion. How could she make this work?

[duckyla]

No again read what i say, i never said that nor intimated that, you seem to keep just writing statements i havent said

That's rich!

I simply said that the SAHMs on this thread were not representative of RL in terms of being married to millionaires & with various income streams.
Your reply was it's narrow minded & offensive to assume most SAHPs don't plan & then some nonsense about being kind. You then confirmed everyone you know is aware of risks.
I questioned whether they do understand the impact, again this was a point based on statistical evidence as opposed to your friendship group as often the working partners pension is excluded from the divorce settlement (I work in this "industry"). You again told me this was offensive because the people you know are aware.
I just don't agree that all women make their choices knowing those facts and risks as you believe. The more that do the better. And for the last time I'm taking statistically not about your mates!

[pinkfanman]

Sil's ex hoarded all his salary - he told her if she worked she would be liable for the childcare bill, she has basic skills so couldn't pay childcare and make work pay, she was a SAHM for 10 years (child with extra needs too). Meanwhile he had built up a tidy little sum in his savings account...the house had no mortgage. The divorce settlement was a lot more generous than she ever thought possible (he was too stingy and stupid to pay for a decent lawyer! 😂 She now has a pretty good job working in the public sector, gets paid well for the area of the country she lives in and is so much better off post divorce in every sense.

[DoubleTweenQueen]

SAHM don't need to be singled out or generally classified as particularly vulnerable, lazy, or lacking in any particular way, as a specific subset of women.

Not desirous of well-meaning and patronising stereotypes, presumption, advice or pity.

Get on with your own lives and mind your own business, if you don't mind.

[SAHMavectwinnies]

@whatthejiggeries
It was never about whether being a SAHM was a job. It does consist of work though, just like it would with a nursery practitioner or childminder (the latter don’t need to be qualified).

Definition of work:
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

Definition of job:
a paid position of regular employment.

[readwhatiactuallysay]

So because women are poorer in general it's irrelevant that women do worse post divorce 👍🏼

No again read what i say, i never said that nor intimated that, you seem to keep just writing statements i havent said 🤨🤨
but common sense would tell you that if statically women are generally poorer than men , which is a well known fact, then they would not come out of a divorce more wealthy 🤔
And with this being a well known fact then yes women make their choices knowing those facts and risks.

[duckyla]

** So you are just talking about people you know, always helpful in a general discussion!

Women are statistically poorer than men in life full stop. Not just after divorce, in life in general

So because women are poorer in general it's irrelevant that women do worse post divorce 👍🏼

[whatthejiggeries]

@SAHMavectwinnies no because they are paid to look after other peoples children. They are also trained and educated on looking after children. You are looking after children you chose to have. There is a big difference.

[readwhatiactuallysay]

@duckyla

I'm not talking about people I know, I'm talking statistically. So you're saying that women aren't poorer then men post divorce? Or if they are,that doesn't impact anyone you know so who cares?

No im not saying that, nor have i ever intimated that, i answered your question Do they understand the impact. I am telling you, yes they do.

Women are statistically poorer than men in life full stop. Not just after divorce, in life in general.

[duckyla]

I'm not talking about people I know, I'm talking statistically. So you're saying that women aren't poorer then men post divorce? Or if they are,that doesn't impact anyone you know so who cares?

[readwhatiactuallysay]

@duckyla

Do they understand the impact? One of the reason women are statistically poorer then men post divorce is that they don't go after the men's pension during a settlement. Or are you just referring to certain posters on MNs?

How offensive again..."Do they understand the impact" if you mean the impact on what would happen if a split happened, yes, yes "they" (i will use they to describe the people i know IRL) do understand the impact, "they" work all of this out and weigh up whether its worth the risk and "they" chose that time at home with their children was worth the risk or they are personally financially protected and secure.

[duckyla]

Its also very kind of you not to "have a problem" with a huge amount of people, you have never met, simply based on their life choices, its very good of you.

I don't understand this point, it's nothing to do with being kind. I meant I don't have an issue with the concept of a SAHP or a working parent. Some people think everyone should work or children should never be in childcare, I don't hold a particular view. I was only highlighting that the vast majority of SAHMs on this thread aren't representative of RL. I'm not sure why that's so offensive?

[duckyla]

The idea that there is a stable, well paid, flexible career for all who want one isn't representative of real life either.

I've not claimed it is & often that's the barrier for women who want to work but can't, so end up on the default SAHP. But I don't think many SAHMs on this thread have said that's the position they are in.

[duckyla]

Do they understand the impact? One of the reason women are statistically poorer then men post divorce is that they don't go after the men's pension during a settlement. Or are you just referring to certain posters on MNs?

[Flossing]

@duckyla

I don't have an issue with SAHPs & was one for a bit. But the idea that every SAHP has their own multi income stream worth ££££ or will be provided for in the event of divorce as per this thread is not representative of RL at all.

I don't think many do either. Some will but not masses of sahms. But what I do think is that many, many understand the risks and do it anyway as they've decided benefits outweigh risks. They don't need educating as one poster said!

[FourTeaFallOut]

The idea that there is a stable, well paid, flexible career for all who want one isn't representative of real life either

Absolutely. We have 30m workers in the UK and of that cohort 7.8m is are classified as the working poor.

[readwhatiactuallysay]

@duckyla

I don't have an issue with SAHPs & was one for a bit. But the idea that every SAHP has their own multi income stream worth ££££ or will be provided for in the event of divorce as per this thread is not representative of RL at all.

Im not sure anyone is saying that.
What people are trying to explain is that it is both narrow minded and offensive to assume most or many SAHP do not think and plan before making such a huge decision.

Its also very kind of you not to "have a problem" with a huge amount of people, you have never met, simply based on their life choices, its very good of you.

Even if they dont have those things, all of the ones i know in RL have weighed up the pros and cons and made an informed decision on what is best for their family, just like every other parent does.

[mafted]

@duckyla

I don't have an issue with SAHPs & was one for a bit. But the idea that every SAHP has their own multi income stream worth ££££ or will be provided for in the event of divorce as per this thread is not representative of RL at all.

The idea that there is a stable, well paid, flexible career for all who want one isn't representative of real life either.

[SAHMavectwinnies]

@vivainsomnia
“So no, I don't agree that most SAHM fully consider the consequences when they make the decision to be so.”

You wrote most…even many is patronising. I think it’s so cheeky that you feel you can comment on whether someone has planned their life adequately.

As other posters have pointed out, people don’t start threads to let others know that life is great and they’re super duper happy. Most hop on looking for advice on not so great situations. Your view is always going to be marred looking at divorce threads alone…if you judged marriage alone via divorce threads then you would assume near 100% end in divorce which is far from the reality.

[RampantIvy]

But the number of jobs that barely or don't pay enough to cover childcare that will apparently help people amass significant pensions and savings seems equally unrepresentative.

I agree