To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

[Katedanielshasakitty]

@cosima8

There were some hideous comments on that thread viva. It wasn’t just one or two. It was quite shocking reading, even by AIBU standards.

The point is, if she hadn’t mentioned she was a SAHM with a high-earning husband, it would have been a totally different thread.

No I am sorry but I agree with viva.

The op clearly said that she felt he no longer saw money as shared and did, indeed feel vulnerable.

She also said his pay wasn't much to raise a family of 4 on. Which made no sense, as she said that wage was relatively new. So until recently, they had been living on less. There were suggestion she got a job, not because she was a sahm. But because their house was unsafe (ops words) and she didn't feel they had a lot of money coming in and were unable to love somewhere safe AND she realised he didn't really see the money as shared.

No one or very few told her to get a job, just because it wasn't OK for her to be sahm.

The vast majority of posters said he should have asked her, but varied on how they would have felt in her position. A few were dicks and called it his money.

There were far more people quoting the dicks and challenging them on it, than there were being dicks.

It disappeared before I saw the debate about wether a wage is legally shared or not, to be fair. But op started this thread, before that one disappeared.

[Katedanielshasakitty]

@Mummyford I think that's spot on. It goes both ways. Which is why I think op is unreasonable. Mn isn't against sahms or wohm.

Some posters are just awful.

[Flossing]

Still, I think that's preferable to attempting to invalidate the issue entirely by trying to dismiss everyone who thinks it's important as "just jealous" (Christ, what are we, 12? I demand a better class of playground insult.). I think women's security is actually an issue worth getting invested in, and I'm sceptical of those who don't. @DrSbaitso*

I think, somewhere in your desire to tell me how wrong I am about everything, you've failed to read what I've actually said on here or, more specifically, what I've not said. Maybe go back and have a look.

Don't bother to @ me, though. I've got notifications turned off.*

I NEVER suggested wohm are jealous of sahm. It's YOU who keeps bring up that argument. I never said it as I don't believe it. Maybe it's YOU who needs to read MY comments properly

And thank goodness we have someone as superior as you on here to educate SAHMs about the pitfalls of being one. Whatever would we do without you 🙄

Love how you've turned off the notifications...like sticking fingers in your ears really

[Flossing]

hoping that silent lurkers who are reading might be able to take something away from it. Sometimes a discussion is held for the audience.

Really highlights my point. Same posters making the same points even when it's not relevant to the OP. @DrSbaitso thinks SAHMs/potential SAHM lurking on threads need educating. Don't you know it's only a certain time of dim woman who would become one? 🙄

In reality there may be some who haven't thought it through, but for lots of women they have and they've decided to make the gamble for extra time with the kids.

When pushed on the issue of why she's constantly posting on these threads we don't really get an answer. She's just got such an issue with the concept and won't admit it or explain why

Anyway, enough from me, I'm off to tell a few working people in the creative arts industry that there isn't much stability in that industry. You know, just in case there are any lurking creative types. It's for the audience. I'm here to educate 🙄

[SAHMavectwinnies]

@Sunflowerfieldsofgold
What do you expect with such condescending and self righteousness being spouted without any regard for others opinions or circumstances.

SAHM don’t all need educating…that makes it sound as though their decision to be a SAHM was ill informed and they will change their mind once reading such posts.

It’s patronising beyond belief.

[cosima8]

If there was a thread about “WOHMs” I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would not be on it. The reason being, it’s irrelevant to me and I have no view. What is a WOHM anyway - someone who works pt in an empty shop; or some high-flyer who zooms round the world. The whole concept of a “WOHM” is a total nonsense because there are as many variations of WOHM as there are women in the world. Some financially vulnerable, some not and pretty much everything in between.

It is staggering to me that some people on MN refer to “SAHM” as a homogenous group. They have a fixed concept of what a SAHM is in their mind (often based in posts from the Relationships board and no more) and get in their high horse, pontificating. It’s bloody irritating. Do they not realise, that there are as many variations of SAHMs as there are women in world. Just like “WOHMs” some will be financially vulnerable, but others far from it.

It stands to reason that money buys choice. You never know who you are talking to on MN. You could well be offering your “advice” to a multi-millionaire SAHM, yet she can’t exactly come out and tell you why she’s not financially vulnerable because then she would be accused of “stealth boasting” or being crass.

On the other hand, you could be talking to someone who needs to be at home because of a child with SEN, a large family or maybe, on balance, the family are simply better off with her at home. Whatever the reason may be, just have the basic decency to credit these women with the agency to make their own decisions in the context of their family circumstances. They know they they’re doing better than a random on the internet. Read the room. Give advice where it’s asked for. Otherwise, reign in the pontificating.

[vivainsomnia]

In reality there may be some who haven't thought it through, but for lots of women they have and they've decided to make the gamble for extra time with the kids
I thought the same until I started reading the relationship and divorce boards. I am quite surprised at the number of posts from SAHMs, who say that they desperately want to leave the relationship but they can't because they have no financial means and are scared at the prospect of getting a job. The number of posters who expect spouse maintenance because it's not their fault that they still don't have a job, 20 years into the marriage, but even most commonly, SAHM who appear hopeless because even when they are due a good amount of money in divorce, are stuck not being able to buy a property because they don't earn enough for a mortgage and the share of assets is not enough to buy outright.

So no, I don't agree that most SAHM fully consider the consequences when they make the decision to be so. I think many think of the benefits in the present time, and rely on their marriage staying good forever.

It is staggering to me that some people on MN refer to “SAHM” as a homogenous group. They have a fixed concept of what a SAHM is in their mind (often based in posts from the Relationships board and no more) and get in their high horse, pontificating. It’s bloody irritating. Do they not realise, that there are as many variations of SAHMs as there are women in world. Just like “WOHMs” some will be financially vulnerable, but others far from it
I totally agree with that. I don't get the all SAHM are fantastic, or very poor role models. Some SAHM are amazing role models and fantastic mums. Others hate looking after the kids but don't want to work either so spend most of their time trying to make it me time rather than time for the kids. Same with working mums. There are great mums who will dedicate all their non working time to their kids, whilst others will work very long hours and are then much to tired to give any quality time to their kids. The status itself means nothing at all.

[SAHMavectwinnies]

@cosima8
🙌🏻

[SAHMavectwinnies]

@vivainsomnia
Don’t tar us all with your brush. Just because you didn’t think it through properly, don’t assume that most SAHM haven’t or that everyone’s circumstances are like your own.

[Katedanielshasakitty]

it there was a thread about “WOHMs” I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would not be on it.

Even if it was asking about mners thought on wohm? That would be a strange thread.

And to be fair, you may not.
But for balance. Loads of sahm do.

Someone linked ones earlier and lots of people talked about how awful alot of sahms were on here when working mums were posting about struggling to juggle homeschooling and, generally, making out they had just planned well for a pandemic. As though they knew it was coming.

Its quite clear some posters are condensending to sahp. Sahp have been condescending to me personally on this thread. But I dont see the benefit of pretending it doesn't go both ways.

[FourTeaFallOut]

I thought the same until I started reading the relationship and divorce boards. I am quite surprised at the number of posts from SAHMs, who say that they desperately want to leave the relationship but they can't because they have no financial means and are scared at the prospect of getting a job.

But no one goes on the relationship board to crow about how well their relationships and life plans are working out. It's not really representative - in the same going on the Christmas board and being aghast that people are writing out their dinner menu in June or going on the style and beauty board to get a read on what the typical person spends on a handbag.

[Katedanielshasakitty]

@FourTeaFallOut

I thought the same until I started reading the relationship and divorce boards. I am quite surprised at the number of posts from SAHMs, who say that they desperately want to leave the relationship but they can't because they have no financial means and are scared at the prospect of getting a job.

But no one goes on the relationship board to crow about how well their relationships and life plans are working out. It's not really representative - in the same going on the Christmas board and being aghast that people are writing out their dinner menu in June or going on the style and beauty board to get a read on what the typical person spends on a handbag.

This is absolutely true.

Its like when there threads saying 'are no long term relationships happy' or 'does no one here like their dh'

Its based on threads on certain boards.

No one posts the mundane parts where actually, life's ticking along quite well.

[cosima8]

Obviously the whole point of the Relationships Board is that it’s a place for people to post when they’re having relationship problems!

Nobody posts when tiring are just fine. When did you ever see a post, “My husband is wonderful and we are loaded loaded .. sorry you’re all getting divorced or have useless men, but I really need to tell you how fantastic my life is... “

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

Agree @FourTeaFallOut and @Katedanielshasakitty

My cousin is a doctor and has a very distorted view of childbirth because they only see the ones that need a doctor to intervene.
They don’t get to see the relatively calm, emergency free labours.

[pinkfanman]

And if you hung out on the employment boards you'd assume, no one could get a job, everyone who has a job is being discriminated against, has a bully for a boss, is being made redundant and is being screwed over, is raising a grievance or on the way to a tribunal.

[Flossing]

@vivainsomnia

In reality there may be some who haven't thought it through, but for lots of women they have and they've decided to make the gamble for extra time with the kids
I thought the same until I started reading the relationship and divorce boards. I am quite surprised at the number of posts from SAHMs, who say that they desperately want to leave the relationship but they can't because they have no financial means and are scared at the prospect of getting a job. The number of posters who expect spouse maintenance because it's not their fault that they still don't have a job, 20 years into the marriage, but even most commonly, SAHM who appear hopeless because even when they are due a good amount of money in divorce, are stuck not being able to buy a property because they don't earn enough for a mortgage and the share of assets is not enough to buy outright.

So no, I don't agree that most SAHM fully consider the consequences when they make the decision to be so. I think many think of the benefits in the present time, and rely on their marriage staying good forever.

It is staggering to me that some people on MN refer to “SAHM” as a homogenous group. They have a fixed concept of what a SAHM is in their mind (often based in posts from the Relationships board and no more) and get in their high horse, pontificating. It’s bloody irritating. Do they not realise, that there are as many variations of SAHMs as there are women in world. Just like “WOHMs” some will be financially vulnerable, but others far from it
I totally agree with that. I don't get the all SAHM are fantastic, or very poor role models. Some SAHM are amazing role models and fantastic mums. Others hate looking after the kids but don't want to work either so spend most of their time trying to make it me time rather than time for the kids. Same with working mums. There are great mums who will dedicate all their non working time to their kids, whilst others will work very long hours and are then much to tired to give any quality time to their kids. The status itself means nothing at all.

Unfortunately many posters seem to get all their ideas about sahm from the relationship board. Happy people don't tend to post about their relationships. A proportion of those posting will be sahms. This does not mean that most sahms haven't thought through their decisions as you've read some negative posts over on relationships!

[cosima8]

Yes I wish people who feel the need to advise SAHMs could spend some time among actual families with SAHMs in the real world. They would get a very different set of impressions.

[vivainsomnia]

Don’t tar us all with your brush. Just because you didn’t think it through properly, don’t assume that most SAHM haven’t or that everyone’s circumstances are like your own
What are you on about? That situation doesn't apply to me at all and never will!

Of course it doesn't mean that most haven't thought it through, I refer to many. Not most, not all!

Unfortunately many posters seem to get all their ideas about sahm from the relationship board
Again, I don't get all my ideas just from here, but it remains a good indication. I have seen it in real life too. I can think of 5 women I know, who were SAHM and now divorced or going through divorce and all are very worried about the future. 3 of them have had to take on low paid jobs which they hate and are very vocal about it, 2 are desperately trying to get spousal maintenance and worried that they won't, so no, not just an issue on MN.

[vivainsomnia]

They would get a very different set of impressions
When all goes well, most certainly, when things start to go wrong, it's another matter.

[RampantIvy]

Happy people don't tend to post about their relationships. A proportion of those posting will be sahms. This does not mean that most sahms haven't thought through their decisions as you've read some negative posts over on relationships!

So true.
I was a SAHM for 4 years, although DD's health issues meant that I had no choice in the matter. I had and still have a very strong marriage (40 years now). We are a partnership and bring different things to the table. Our partnership is not just based on finances.

I also have savings and am not financially dependent on DH.

[vivainsomnia]

I also have savings and am not financially dependent on DH
Aren't your savings joint? Legally they are.

[Flossing]

@vivainsomnia

Don’t tar us all with your brush. Just because you didn’t think it through properly, don’t assume that most SAHM haven’t or that everyone’s circumstances are like your own
What are you on about? That situation doesn't apply to me at all and never will!

Of course it doesn't mean that most haven't thought it through, I refer to many. Not most, not all!

Unfortunately many posters seem to get all their ideas about sahm from the relationship board
Again, I don't get all my ideas just from here, but it remains a good indication. I have seen it in real life too. I can think of 5 women I know, who were SAHM and now divorced or going through divorce and all are very worried about the future. 3 of them have had to take on low paid jobs which they hate and are very vocal about it, 2 are desperately trying to get spousal maintenance and worried that they won't, so no, not just an issue on MN.

It really doesn't remain a good indication...as you will only get people experiencing problems there. If you wanted a balanced view you wouldn't find it there.

That's a shame about the people you know. But again just because things haven't worked out how they wanted doesn't mean they didn't think it through...it could also have meant they understood the risks but took the gamble as they thought the advantages outweighed the risks.

[duckyla]

I don't have an issue with SAHPs & was one for a bit. But the idea that every SAHP has their own multi income stream worth ££££ or will be provided for in the event of divorce as per this thread is not representative of RL at all.

[Mummyford]

@duckyla

I don't have an issue with SAHPs & was one for a bit. But the idea that every SAHP has their own multi income stream worth ££££ or will be provided for in the event of divorce as per this thread is not representative of RL at all.

@duckyla

True. But the number of jobs that barely or don't pay enough to cover childcare that will apparently help people amass significant pensions and savings seems equally unrepresentative.

[RampantIvy]

But the number of jobs that barely or don't pay enough to cover childcare that will apparently help people amass significant pensions and savings seems equally unrepresentative.

I agree