To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

@Benjispruce5

For me, being there for my children was more important than a career. I’ve never regret it.

I don't think your comments are helping as it's comments like 'being there for my children' which some wohm find goady as the implication is if you work you aren't there for them. The thread then falls apart into a wohm Vs sahm debate which it need not be.

Better to say you don't regret your choice as you didn't value your career and preferred the additional time with the children.

It seems a subtle difference in phrasing but i think wohm and sahm need to carefully consider word choice on these types of threads so it doesn't end up a bun fight between wohm and sahm...we don't gain anything from that.

@flossing absolutely right. 2 people can say, essentially, the same thing. But the wording changes the tone.

You can say you prefer Being a sahp/wohp without throwing words in that try and make it appear the superior or morally right choice.

@SorryWoman

What I don't understand about SAHP is why you wouldn't have the self respect to want to pay your own bills basically.

ODFOD

@Benjispruce5

For me, being there for my children was more important than a career. I’ve never regret it.

^ this and your other gem *@SorryWoman bringing up your own children is work IMO.* really don’t help the debate.

Do think women who work don’t bring up their children? Really.

I didn’t say that explicitly. I just wanted to be the one to educate and meet their needs most of the time when they were very young. My choice.

I wasn’t being goady. No intention. I don’t care what anyone else chooses. That’s exactly how I feel and so I am sharing it. Mine are 20 and 17 now so I’m way past caring tbh.

@Benjispruce5

For me, being there for my children was more important than a career. I’ve never regret it.

But working parents are also "there" for their children. And its not a binary "children vs career" choice. And finally, some of us simply don't have this choice. I'm a single parent and staying at home just wasn't on the table for me.

I came onto this thread with a very open mind and willing to see both sides of the story but when people post things like this on a thread asking why everyone picks on SAHMs of all things it tends to reinforce my view that quite a lot of the time its actually the other way round: SAHMs wanting to make passive aggressive digs at women who "don't raise their own children".

If SAHMs feel they are being got at then they may want to temper some of this "can't raise your own children" rhetoric and perhaps their points of view may be heard with a more open mind.

@Benjispruce5

I wasn’t being goady. No intention. I don’t care what anyone else chooses. That’s exactly how I feel and so I am sharing it. Mine are 20 and 17 now so I’m way past caring tbh.

But you also just said 'I didn't say that explicitly', so you meant what you said. so you did mean to be a bit goady.

Working parents also educate and meet the needs of their children too.

That's the point. Sahp isn't a superior choice. Neither is wohp.

But even when kids are in childcare, the biggest influence on their lives are their parents. But also, not every working parent uses outside childcare.

We had a restaurant when our kids were young. I worked during the day, my husband worked evenings. No outside childcare needed.

I haven’t read the thread. I can on to say my thought process about not working outside of the home. My thoughts were that I was willing to sacrifice my career, bigger house etc so that I could be at home for all sorts of reasons. ‘Being there’ is just a choice of words. We all know what being a sahm involves. I was ‘there’ instead of at work. Why is that so difficult to hear? My choice of words were not intended to make me superior. I don’t believe I am for a start. It’s just how I wanted to parent.

• I came on

@Benjispruce5

I didn’t say that explicitly. I just wanted to be the one to educate and meet their needs most of the time when they were very young. My choice.

I don't think you necessarily intended to be goady, I'm just saying the implication (whether intended or not) is that wohm aren't 'there for' there children. I'm just highlighting it's important to be aware of how these sorts of statements (from either wohm or sahm) can be interpreted.

Why do people even care enough to pass comment/judge other people’s lives?

Their decision to be/not to be a SAHM has no impact on your life so why feel the need to pass judgment.

If you’re happy with your lot then great, if you’re not then do something about it. Don’t tear other women down because you choose /have to live differently.

Shitty comments lead to people feeling the need to defend themselves. Understandably, really.

@SorryWoman
Again, you’re assuming everyone’s circumstances are the same. How do you know that the SAHM didn’t solely pay off the joint mortgage before giving up work? How do you know she doesn’t have savings and so continues to contribute. You don’t. You’re making a blanket statement based on your own narrow minded opinion. What a dick.

*their children

As a previous sahm I wouldn't say I've sacrificed my career at all
Just to be clear, my comments are only aimed at women who claim that their husband earn a lot because they have sacrifice their own career to facilitate theirs, which is oddly a very common statement on MN.

If one partner earns a lot, and the other was too before giving it up, surely they had enough to pay for a nanny.

Their decision to be/not to be a SAHM has no impact on your life so why feel the need to pass judgment
It's not the decision to be a SAHM I judge, I have no issues with women deciding to be so, it's the pretence that they are so as a sacrifice and it's thanks to this sacrifice that their OH are able to earn a lot which I question.

This comes up in just about every case scenario in divorce situations when the man is a high earner and the woman is a SAHM.

@Benjispruce5

I haven’t read the thread. I can on to say my thought process about not working outside of the home. My thoughts were that I was willing to sacrifice my career, bigger house etc so that I could be at home for all sorts of reasons. ‘Being there’ is just a choice of words. We all know what being a sahm involves. I was ‘there’ instead of at work. Why is that so difficult to hear? My choice of words were not intended to make me superior. I don’t believe I am for a start. It’s just how I wanted to parent.

I don't think it's difficult to hear. I can see your thought process as I see it with the comments from wohm who say they do everything a sahp on top of their jobs...well not quite true for the 0-5 age as someone's doing the childcare whilst you are working. However, I think 'Being there' as a phrase often means emotionally not just being physically there. So I can see why that phrasing might cause offense (even if not intended)

But I was there physically and emotionally.

@Benjispruce5

I haven’t read the thread. I can on to say my thought process about not working outside of the home. My thoughts were that I was willing to sacrifice my career, bigger house etc so that I could be at home for all sorts of reasons. ‘Being there’ is just a choice of words. We all know what being a sahm involves. I was ‘there’ instead of at work. Why is that so difficult to hear? My choice of words were not intended to make me superior. I don’t believe I am for a start. It’s just how I wanted to parent.

Its not 'difficult to hear' mainly because while I respect you opinion. I disagree.

But it goes back to the point on wording.

If you became a sahm to be there for your child, it follows that you think working parents can not be there for their children.

Just like if someone said 'I have too much respect for myself to be a sahp' it would follow that, that person thinks sahp don't respect themselves.

And maybe that's part of the problem. That people aren't intentionally attacking or sahp or wohp. But the wording comes across derogatory.

I've always thought it was jealousy. I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to be a sahm

That's a bit narcissistic. "I feel x so therefore anybody who says anything critical about x must just be jealous of me." Basically, you think your life is the gold standard of how everybody should aspire to live?

Can you really not imagine that other people might have different feelings and experiences to you?

How embarrassing to declare that the only reason someone might possibly express concerns or criticisms about something is because they're jealous of you.

Try starting a thread about a SAHD if you want to see things get nasty - I do think a SAHM is seen a LOT more positively, which is a bit off actually.

@Benjispruce5

But I was there physically and emotionally.

Yes you were. But its possible for a working parent to be emotionally there throughout childhood without physically being with them 24/7. I say this as a parent who has been a sahm.

In the case of a wohm they may not have been there physically during their working hours but they would likely have provided emotional support for that child in their non working hours. Granted they can't be there for every emotional issue but thats still the case for children who go to school

@Benjispruce5

But I was there physically and emotionally.

And so are working parents.

As a sahm you are there ALL the time. That’s what I wanted. I’m not saying working mums aren’t ‘ there’ emotionally but I wanted to be physically there. I shouldn’t have to rephrase that so that I dont hurt feelings. It’s a fact not an opinion. I was told to rephrase so thats why I asked why saying I was there was difficult to hear.

@SAHMavectwinnies

Why do people even care enough to pass comment/judge other people’s lives?

Their decision to be/not to be a SAHM has no impact on your life so why feel the need to pass judgment.

If you’re happy with your lot then great, if you’re not then do something about it. Don’t tear other women down because you choose /have to live differently.

Shitty comments lead to people feeling the need to defend themselves. Understandably, really.

@SorryWoman
Again, you’re assuming everyone’s circumstances are the same. How do you know that the SAHM didn’t solely pay off the joint mortgage before giving up work? How do you know she doesn’t have savings and so continues to contribute. You don’t. You’re making a blanket statement based on your own narrow minded opinion. What a dick.

@SAHMavectwinnies Enjoying your contributions

maybe that's part of the problem. That people aren't intentionally attacking or sahp or wohp. But the wording comes across derogatory. @Katedanielshasakitty I think you've hit the nail on the head there, bar the odd obvious post