To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

@SorryWoman bringing up your own children is work IMO.

I think jealously is part of it tbh. I wouldn’t want to make myself financially vulnerable as a SAHM, but if you’ve got your own assets and ways to earn money: or you are certain your DH will treat all earnings as family earnings I can’t see why it’s a problem

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

No issue with whether a woman works or doesn’t but two things that piss me off:

1- “my partner works because he earns more”....always men who earn more

2- childcare will take all my wage- nope it’s a joint expense

Just say, I want to be a SAHM, that’s the truth and that’s ok.

But if your partners wage means you only just break even as a family, not more, then: 1-these two things are linked 2-these two things are problematic financial facts

And if 3 is also true:
3- the (female) other wage earner can only go back to a wage that doesn’t cover both childcare and a commute

Then it follows that:
Being a sahm is not a choice, but the only viable option

The ‘childcare takes my wage’ isn’t bc the earner isn’t paying, but instead refers to the fact that there is nothing left in the family pot to cover childcare, and if the sahm wants to work, that extra money will ah e to be found from the extra income (sahm new wage)

Wilfully misunderstanding this does a disservice to the many families who cannot afford the childcare they need for a ‘equal’ financial burden, and ignores the sacrifices the lower wage earner may have made in order to afford having children.

@Bluntness100

Oh for goodness sake.

Why is mumsent so horrible to sahms
Why is mumsnet to horrible to woh mums

There is no hive mind, it’s sixteen million individuals

Doesn't feel that way sometimes. I've been on here for +3 years and I can't remember ever seeing a thread that actively supported someone's choice to be a SAHM.

I really only see concern for women and their financial situation. I’ve been a sahm, but I’ve done it with a safety net of marketable skills and a savings account. There has never been a point where I would have to worry about housing or feeding my kids if I had to tell my husband to leave. Having grown up in an abusive household with a mother who felt trapped by culture and finances, I just hate the idea of any woman not having an exit plan, even if her husband is the sweetest most generous man on the planet.

@Dontwatchfootball

Never seen a SAHM trashed. But I do see women being held to account for allowing relationships to be set up in a way that gives them no security, which seems fair enough.

You've obviously not read this thread then

Well, people won’t admit this, but if you’re working your arse off in a stressful corporate job and your neighbour doesn’t work but still drives a Range Rover and gets to spend her life doing things that are more fun than an office job....well, it’s not hard to see where the bitterness comes from.

@SourAppleChew

Well, people won’t admit this, but if you’re working your arse off in a stressful corporate job and your neighbour doesn’t work but still drives a Range Rover and gets to spend her life doing things that are more fun than an office job....well, it’s not hard to see where the bitterness comes from.

Isn't that just life?

@SorryWoman surely the flip side is that maybe stay at home parents can't understand why some people have such little respect for their babies that they choose to stick them with strangers instead of bringing them up themselves.

(I don't actually think that for the record, everyone... Just batting back against that utter Katie hopkins-esque bullshit SorryExcuseForAWoman is spewing...)

I don't understand the "facilitating someone's career" by staying at home. The other person would most likely still have that career, just probably no kids.

I can see both sides.

The bloke wouldn’t be able to have that career and family without serious expense had he not got the wife at home. However, looking at my bosses and other senior earners at work, they’re definitely facilitating their wives’ living a cushy life with no work stress and plenty of money to spend.

Lol @ the thought that sahms with school aged kids watch TV all day. Far too many naps to be had for that rubbish. Then there's the relaxed coffee dates, days out with friends, books to read, subjects to study, people to help, relatives to look after... People really don't fall into neat little categories where you can file them away.

This is a poorly concealed TAAT. People were not being "horrible to a SAHM" (as a number of red herring commenters attempted at the time to claim, disingenuously) to point out that 100k between 4 people is a very good wage indeed. They were being objectively correct

[quote SorryWoman]@DrSbaitso
Everybody can afford a better standard of living in a relationship with two working adults.

Working is about self respect though, in my opinion. If it wasnt then why do most women with children in other countries bother to work?[/quote]
They definitely can’t!

We were in the red when I worked
When I gave up my job we went into the black by 12£ each month.
That made a huge difference-
We used that money to drive to the beach and have chips once a month.
Huge increase in quality of life bc no longer actively going into debt.
Add into this the first month is paid arrears but you have to pay childcare in advance.

Au pairs and Nannies are really expensive, do you think everyone with a career earns a 6 figure salary
I would consider a career, that is being sacrificed, is one where the income is at least 50K, so with two partners earning that much, yes, they should be able to afford one.

There was a thread some time ago when a SAHM mentioned having sacrificed her career, except that she had given up an entry job, but had assumed that had she not been at home, she'd be earning a high figure. If only!

I do wonder how many SAHM that have sacrificed their career, mean that they have sacrificed the dream job they are assuming they'd have now, rather than the high paid job they had at the time of becoming a SAHM.

@SourAppleChew

I don't understand the "facilitating someone's career" by staying at home. The other person would most likely still have that career, just probably no kids.

I can see both sides.

The bloke wouldn’t be able to have that career and family without serious expense had he not got the wife at home. However, looking at my bosses and other senior earners at work, they’re definitely facilitating their wives’ living a cushy life with no work stress and plenty of money to spend.

My fil (and my husband to some extent) love being the sole earner. Neither my mil or I 'work', our job is bringing up the kids and doing whatever the hell we like! Can't see how that's of anyone else's business though.

I guess people want what they can't have? The grass is always greener?

The job I gave up actually hurt my confidence and self-esteem. I don't have to dance to anyone's tune now. Except my preschooler's I suppose!

I do wonder how many SAHM that have sacrificed their career, mean that they have sacrificed the dream job they are assuming they'd have now, rather than the high paid job they had at the time of becoming a SAHM.

I wonder this too.

I often reflect that the job the SAHM left is probably nowhere near as stressful as the job her husband is doing 10-15 years later. Especially when we consider he was probably already five years ahead when she stopped working due to women usually marrying older men.

@vivainsomnia

Au pairs and Nannies are really expensive, do you think everyone with a career earns a 6 figure salary I would consider a career, that is being sacrificed, is one where the income is at least 50K, so with two partners earning that much, yes, they should be able to afford one.

There was a thread some time ago when a SAHM mentioned having sacrificed her career, except that she had given up an entry job, but had assumed that had she not been at home, she'd be earning a high figure. If only!

I do wonder how many SAHM that have sacrificed their career, mean that they have sacrificed the dream job they are assuming they'd have now, rather than the high paid job they had at the time of becoming a SAHM.

Our household income is about 90k. I'm sure we can't afford a nanny as don't they earn salaries around 30k plus? Then you need to consider pension contributions etc

Prob could afford an au pair at a push but no room for one and don't like the idea of having someone live in.

As a previous sahm I wouldn't say I've sacrificed my career at all...I work in a sector where there was no difficulty getting a job after my four years not working. I would genuinely say it was a career break not sacrifice. It isn't always a sacrifice.

@SourAppleChew

I do wonder how many SAHM that have sacrificed their career, mean that they have sacrificed the dream job they are assuming they'd have now, rather than the high paid job they had at the time of becoming a SAHM.

I wonder this too.

I often reflect that the job the SAHM left is probably nowhere near as stressful as the job her husband is doing 10-15 years later. Especially when we consider he was probably already five years ahead when she stopped working due to women usually marrying older men.

he was probably already five years ahead when she stopped working due to women usually marrying older men.

Stereotyping much?
Like most groups in society sahm are diverse.

@SourAppleChew

Well, people won’t admit this, but if you’re working your arse off in a stressful corporate job and your neighbour doesn’t work but still drives a Range Rover and gets to spend her life doing things that are more fun than an office job....well, it’s not hard to see where the bitterness comes from.

The problem with this position is that it assumes that the women in question don't enjoy working.

My dad had a very high-earning job (he didn't have a Range Rover but could have done) and my mum was miserable as a SAHM. She hated not earning her own money and not being in control of her own financial destiny. And she felt very trapped.

I'm not saying everyone is like this but the "jealousy" trope is wrong IMHO. A lot of families rely on two couples earning but that alone doesn't explain the reason why a lot of women like to work. Some enjoy working. I would find it incredibly stifling to have a wealthy husband who brought in all the money and not contributing myself: both from the financial independence perspective and from the perspective of having a purpose outside of raising children.

This is not to say that I don't think raising children is a valid occupation or that SAHMs must be bored or intellectually weak. But I think saying its just jealousy misses the point.

I often reflect that the job the SAHM left is probably nowhere near as stressful as the job her husband is doing 10-15 years later. Especially when we consider he was probably already five years ahead when she stopped working due to women usually marrying older men. Really depends what you find stressful - lots of people find childcare more stressful than a big job.

For me, being there for my children was more important than a career. I’ve never regret it.

Regretted.

@SourAppleChew

Well, people won’t admit this, but if you’re working your arse off in a stressful corporate job and your neighbour doesn’t work but still drives a Range Rover and gets to spend her life doing things that are more fun than an office job....well, it’s not hard to see where the bitterness comes from.

Not for me no. I have never looked at what other people have and their circumstances and applied to it me.

I am, genuinely, happy as the main wage earner in a family. Its not the right thing for everyone, but isn't for me.

I wouldn't even think to compare lives with someone I have nothing in common with. I have friends who work full time, part time, sahp to small kids, sahp to older kids, women who class themselves as housewives be sure they kids are grown.

I wouldn't compare myself to them and envy them or look down on them. And I would hope they do neither to me.