To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

How you receive the wording has a lot to do with your own inner feelings about your choices. That’s the reader’s issue .

@Benjispruce5

As a sahm you are there ALL the time. That’s what I wanted. I’m not saying working mums aren’t ‘ there’ emotionally but I wanted to be physically there. I shouldn’t have to rephrase that so that I dont hurt feelings. It’s a fact not an opinion. I was told to rephrase so thats why I asked why saying I was there was difficult to hear.

I don't agree as 'being there' for your children has a different meaning/can be interpreted differently than 'being there all the time'

I meant it in every sense.

@Benjispruce5

How you receive the wording has a lot to do with your own inner feelings about your choices. That’s the reader’s issue .

Then why are you so defensive about the criticism you're receiving?

@Benjispruce5

How you receive the wording has a lot to do with your own inner feelings about your choices. That’s the reader’s issue .

I can see it from both sides as I've been a sahp and now a wohm. I don't think it's the readers issue. It's about understanding how your words can be misinterpreted. I'm sure you did not intend offense, I'm just explaining why some may have taken your statement the wrong way. Word choice is important.

Gosh, how this thread has moved on!

Jealousy is so ugly.

I don't think anyone has ever been jealous of me about anything and I would really hate it if they were. Neither am I jealous of others. It's just so pointless.

I feel I’m being picked to pieces for stating a parenting choice I made so I am trying to answer the criticism as I have been misunderstood.

@Benjispruce5

@Benjispruce5

I feel I’m being picked to pieces for stating a parenting choice I made so I am trying to answer the criticism as I have been misunderstood.

I don't think you are being picked to pieces for stating your parenting choice (I took the same one for 4 years!)

People are talking about the 'being there' comment. It's pretty clear from your posts you weren't trying to upset anyone. But you aren't willing to see why some working parents may not have liked your phrasing. That's why people are still commenting

It's the wording not the parenting choice that's being commented on

I don't think what @Benjispruce5 said was offensive to be honest, I'm not physically there all of the time for DS and that works for us, if someone wants to be there all the time and it works for them than great.

@Benjispruce5 I will leave it there though as I don't want to make anyone feel picked apart. I meant no offense to you and I do understand what you were trying to say

@vivainsomnia
Again though, why do you take issue with it?

It has absolutely no impact on your life if that’s what a SAHM feels she has done…so why do you feel the need to query/judge/belittle her because that’s how she feels?

Our childcare costs would be circa £3k a month. DH and I made the decision for me to make a SAHM. If we hadn’t we would be in debt. This decision also meant that DH could afford to take a few months out to retrain and change career. He couldn’t if we had a whopping childcare bill. I’m more than happy with this, so while I did technically give up my career for family reasons, I was more than happy to and I have no regrets in doing so.

@Benjispruce5

I feel I’m being picked to pieces for stating a parenting choice I made so I am trying to answer the criticism as I have been misunderstood.

I can see why you’d feel like that. Posters demanding you explain yourself and other posters condemning those explanations as being defensive.

My point is that I am not responsible for how others feel because some random on MN (me) states that she chose to be there in every sense with her children instead of working outside of the home part of the time. That’s a fact that every parent knows. Either you’re there or someone else is. I wanted it to be me and so I engineered it that way.

Thank you @AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken that’s it entirely.

@Benjispruce5

I feel I’m being picked to pieces for stating a parenting choice I made so I am trying to answer the criticism as I have been misunderstood.

You haven't been misunderstood. That's the issue. People explained why your wording is, whether you intend it or not, critical of those who live differently. Instead of taking it on board and rephrasing in future, you're blaming everyone else and using the "offence is only ever taken" line, while not applying it to yourself.

@Benjispruce5

My point is that I am not responsible for how others feel because some random on MN (me) states that she chose to be there in every sense with her children instead of working outside of the home part of the time. That’s a fact that every parent knows. Either you’re there or someone else is. I wanted it to be me and so I engineered it that way.

I do actually agree with what you've said here. Despite not liking the phrasing before...it sort of goes back to what I said earlier about working parents saying they do what a sahp does on top of their jobs. Which isn't true if you use childcare, you are doing different things.

I'm curious to know roughly how many hours a week most SAHP's spend on community/voluntary activities? I don't add it up, but I'd guess between PA stuff, helping at the local food bank, doing literacy work with primary school kids, serving as a governor for a very underfunded school, doing grant-writing for a community organisation (if you think councils are lining up to throw money at them, you'd be wrong), and cooking for an elderly CEV neighbour, I'm coming out at above 20 hours in an average week.

But plenty of people work and manage to fit in plenty of community activities. I'm not sure what you describe above would take 20 hours a week every week unless you are doing it all daily? PTA/governors type stuff is not terribly demanding on time unless you are the chair.

I work 4 days a week in a stressful finance role. I also serve on the PTA, plus am a trustee on a small local charity. I also have volunteered for various seasonal community initiatives (litter picking, green space maintenance and the like).

I know its anecdote, but many of the SAHP of school age children I know fit in a lot of time at the gym, meeting friends, dog walking etc. Leisure, essentially. That's fine, except DH is mates with 3 of the husbands and all are grumpy about being the sole earner and are very stressed by that. It's that side of SAHP that I think isn't always discussed, whether many partners of SAHP of school age children would actually prefer their non working partner to be bringing in a wage.

As a FT WOHM Benjispruces5s comment did not offend me at all. I love them but I never wanted to be physically with my under 5s all the time. Freely admit to this. I think more women should just feel ok to admit that small children are massive hard work and sometimes a pain in the arse. Back in the pre-Covid days I used to see a few dads faffing about during the day then ‘having’ to work later because they were so busy. These same dads always had very young children and it was clear they were trying to avoid getting home too early or just in time for bedtime.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I'm curious to know roughly how many hours a week most SAHP's spend on community/voluntary activities? I don't add it up, but I'd guess between PA stuff, helping at the local food bank, doing literacy work with primary school kids, serving as a governor for a very underfunded school, doing grant-writing for a community organisation (if you think councils are lining up to throw money at them, you'd be wrong), and cooking for an elderly CEV neighbour, I'm coming out at above 20 hours in an average week.

But plenty of people work and manage to fit in plenty of community activities. I'm not sure what you describe above would take 20 hours a week every week unless you are doing it all daily? PTA/governors type stuff is not terribly demanding on time unless you are the chair.

I work 4 days a week in a stressful finance role. I also serve on the PTA, plus am a trustee on a small local charity. I also have volunteered for various seasonal community initiatives (litter picking, green space maintenance and the like).

I know its anecdote, but many of the SAHP of school age children I know fit in a lot of time at the gym, meeting friends, dog walking etc. Leisure, essentially. That's fine, except DH is mates with 3 of the husbands and all are grumpy about being the sole earner and are very stressed by that. It's that side of SAHP that I think isn't always discussed, whether many partners of SAHP of school age children would actually prefer their non working partner to be bringing in a wage.

Genuinely in awe of how you fit all that in!

How old are your children out of interest?

@Benjispruce5

How you receive the wording has a lot to do with your own inner feelings about your choices. That’s the reader’s issue .

So you think words only have meaning to the reader? That the writers words are not important? That there's writers context, language etc isn't important in written word?

Are you saying as a sahp, you never left your children's sides until they went to school? Because I think that's fairly unusual.

You seem quite annoyed at people not agreeing with you. Yet blame others for taking your words to mean their actual meaning.

I have never regretted working for a moment. And, as my kids are older, truly believe it's been the best for as all. So your words don't hurt Me I just disagree and believe that wording such as yours is what causes some of the issues talked about here.

I am frustrated at being misunderstood. I wanted to be a sahm until my children went to school. I then worked around school hours. Others made different choices that were right for them Can’t be any clearer.

@SorryWoman

Obviously running a hoover around, making the evening meal, doing a load of laundry and paying a bill doesnt all add up to the 9 hours it takes to commute and do a full day at the office so I think its grating when SAHMs are told to make sure their working partners "pull their weight" by doing some cooking or cleaning. If that's your full time job then you should do it.

I’ve not been a SAHP to school-age kids, but looking after toddlers and babies is a full time task and it can be pretty difficult to get even basic household tasks done. Especially if you have poor sleepers.

@Benjispruce5

I am frustrated at being misunderstood. I wanted to be a sahm until my children went to school. I then worked around school hours. Others made different choices that were right for them Can’t be any clearer.

But that's my point.

While out intention may not be, to put others down, wording things in certain ways will come across that way.

Which is what I am thinking is half of the problem here (a few total dicks aside) the intention isn't to attack sahp or wohp. But the poor wording makes it read like that.

Which is why people don't think people do get attacked often, and others don't see it.

I can say I enjoy and am happy being a wohp, without also thinking or posting in a way that comes across as though I think sahp are less than.

Agree with @NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

This isn't the 1950s. If we want to be treated as equals, we need to behave like equals, by not expecting our partners to keep us.

Also agree that some of us work full time and still manage to do the above. Hobbies, children's hobbies, community activities, allotments, dog walking and so on.

But then I actually thought looking after DC full time was harder than any paid job and was relieved to go back to full time work. So I don't think they're lazy, but I do think they're part of the reason women are still the ones who give up their jobs, who earn less and ultimately suffer if the relationship goes to shit. Because nothing changes if nothing changes. If you're expecting to be kept by your partner, when you're perfectly capable of working, then you're not equal. There's an imbalance of power and understandably the earning partner gets resentful being treated like a cash cow.