To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

@mafted

For what it's worth the negativity tends to be aimed at those who continue to stay at home when the child is in school. Oh well that's ok then

😂😂😂 well I suppose at least you’re admitting the negativity instead of suggesting it’s all about (faux) concern over pensions and divorce.

Aibu is a nest of vipers 🤷‍♀️

@ChristmasShearwater have a look over at relationships. Three are on there now. Sad stories about how they can't afford to leave an abusive spouse and asking for benefits advice. They are on there on a daily basis.

@Mrs08

Personally, I did not become a sahm through choice and I think that's true for many sahms.

Accidental sahm if you like! :)

I've had periods of working pt whilst my dc were young but events have always rather conspired against me.

Eldest ds1 was very poorly as a baby/toddler/pre schooler. Working would have been impossible due to no sleep, hospital appts Dr's appts etc.

4 pg losses.

Surprise ds2!

Then dh got 2 promotions which meant a huge change in our family life.

Then my dad died very unexpectedly and mum got really ill. I'm now her carer.

It is what it is. I do voluntary work, I study. I don't think my children think I'm a poor role model.

Financially there is no doubt I am more vulnerable than a woman who works but other than having all savings and investments in my name and half my dhs very good pension if he left theres not much I can do about that.

I would not have children with someone without being married. The legal protection it offers women is why so many men don't want to do it.

Thank you. THIS.

i did not actively set out to be a SAHM either. I certainly intended to be with my child for a while before going back though. I was let go from a job right before giving birth (yeah, highly dodgy). It wasn't a wonderful and my work history has been spotty for a number of reasons.

Then Coronavirus hit. I'd like to be working 2-3 days a week but I'm only needed for one right now. Sometimes thats just how it is.

I wasn't aware there was a general view against sahms.

I prefer not to be a SAHM because I would hate to depend on anyone financially, because I would lose my career, and because it would make me vulnerable. But it's my personal choice, not a judgement on anyone else.

Thank you for this thread OP. I am a SAHM and I do see what you are seeing. I also really worry that so many women are so quick to say LTB on here, as though men were just a spare part with no intrinsic value or usefulness. I think that is terribly sad. I worry about what their sons are learning from that, seeing the fathers being thrown away like old rubbish.

Wow, mners hate sahm AND think their sons have no value as adult. Ok then

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]@Whiskycav

I worked full time while my husband earned very little setting up his business. He absolutely would not have been able to do it without me.[/quote]
OK?

The almost snobbery is ridiculous. They disguise critique of SAHM by making excuses re relationships and independence.

My mum was in a brutal abusive relationship with my bio dad. Money did FA for her because guess what, beaten brutally if 1 penny of her wage wasn't accounted for. It went into the joint bank account, he would have killed her if she thought otherwise. We escaped with nothing due to family help

People on here are fixated and go on about needing money to escape bad relationships/have security for yourself, as if that justifies the SAHM snobbery

If you are in a bad relationship, there is no security. Full stop. There's only the consequences. If you have a bad divorce, both sides will lose the hell out anyway due to legal fees etc... that isn't made worse if you've been a SAHM it's shit all round.

Families should do what is best for them and their children and MN need to stop being so snobby. Not every SAHM has some horrid relationship that will go to shit in the next decade.

[quote DanniDuck]@honeylulu

I believe that the vast majority of SAHM are so because they want to be...

I'm not a SAHM and have no issue with those who choose that option. But I do find the bleating on about "sacrifice" really irritating. Its not sacrifice; it's a lifestyle choice.

Likewise the "my husband wouldn't have been able to have his successful career without me at home supporting him". I'm the main breadwinner in our house (we have two children) and my success isn't down to my husband's support - he works full time himself!

Wanting to be a SAHM is a valid choice. Own it!

Oooooh, the jealousy is strong on this one. Your face must be so green!

Your post (like many from jealous working mums who HAVE to work and don't want to,) totally omits the 100s of 1000s of SAHMs who stay at home with the children because of the RIDICULOUS cost of childcare.

You are not a SAHM, so stop bleating about stuff you know naff-all about hmm?![/quote]
Very insecure if you think that someone’s opinion must come from a place of jealousy. Trying way too hard to prove your choices there. Seems a bit odd and defensive

What I don't understand about SAHP is why you wouldn't have the self respect to want to pay your own bills basically.

@Mintjulia

I wasn't aware there was a general view against sahms.

I prefer not to be a SAHM because I would hate to depend on anyone financially, because I would lose my career, and because it would make me vulnerable. But it's my personal choice, not a judgement on anyone else.

This. It's not for me personally but each to their own.

@SorryWoman
You should be sorry for making comments like that…read the thread, read about other people’s circumstances.

I wonder if all the people on the first page who said they'd never seen any mumsnet unpleasantness against SAHMs kept reading the thread. Then experienced some examples of mumsnet unpleasantness against SAHMs

I was a SAHM supported by my husband. Really enjoyed it and don't have any regrets. There is unpleasantness from some people but there's nastiness from all sides isn't there? Who really cares? People will continue to make their own decisions for their own lives, families and children.

@ButterflyCat2028

The almost snobbery is ridiculous. They disguise critique of SAHM by making excuses re relationships and independence.

My mum was in a brutal abusive relationship with my bio dad. Money did FA for her because guess what, beaten brutally if 1 penny of her wage wasn't accounted for. It went into the joint bank account, he would have killed her if she thought otherwise. We escaped with nothing due to family help

People on here are fixated and go on about needing money to escape bad relationships/have security for yourself, as if that justifies the SAHM snobbery

If you are in a bad relationship, there is no security. Full stop. There's only the consequences. If you have a bad divorce, both sides will lose the hell out anyway due to legal fees etc... that isn't made worse if you've been a SAHM it's shit all round.

Families should do what is best for them and their children and MN need to stop being so snobby. Not every SAHM has some horrid relationship that will go to shit in the next decade.

Very good point. The most abusive relationship I was a aware of when I was growing up was like this. She worked 50+ hour weeks to escape the house while he worked sporadically but he was in full control of the money. She also had to do all the cooking and cleaning and everything else. Pander to his every whim or suffer the consequences. She earned a lot of money (£30K plus in the 90s in South Yorkshire) but didn’t have any safety or security.

I’m sorry that happened to your mother ButterflyCat2028. Money doesn’t automatically protect women from abuse. Financial abuse often goes along with physical, sexual and emotional abuse.

@SorryWoman

What I don't understand about SAHP is why you wouldn't have the self respect to want to pay your own bills basically.

That's a really shitty thing to think. I am not even a sahp and think that's not ok.

You aren't a sahp, so you don't need to understand anything.

A sahps xontribution is part of the family. Not all contributions are based in money.

And I sincerely hope no SAHMs feel bad about comments such as the one from SorryWoman

It's exactly the sort of thing the OP talked about in the opening post.

@popcornriver on this thread there's been very unpleasant things said from both sides.

Which is my opinion. Some people are just dicks. Mn isn't against sahms. Some people are just horrible people and wi pick at anything about another poster, that they disagree with.

Whiskycav yeah of course. That's why I said there's nastiness from all sides. Some people just aren't very nice are they. The OP has a point when she says there's a lot of unpleasantness aimed at SAHMs though. I've personally seen it quite a bit on mumsnet, definitely more than any negativity aimed at working parents.

Obviously neither is OK.

@Popcornriver

And I sincerely hope no SAHMs feel bad about comments such as the one from SorryWoman

It's exactly the sort of thing the OP talked about in the opening post.

I think most people can only pity someone whose only source of self respect comes in monetary form.

@ButterflyCat2028

The almost snobbery is ridiculous. They disguise critique of SAHM by making excuses re relationships and independence.

My mum was in a brutal abusive relationship with my bio dad. Money did FA for her because guess what, beaten brutally if 1 penny of her wage wasn't accounted for. It went into the joint bank account, he would have killed her if she thought otherwise. We escaped with nothing due to family help

People on here are fixated and go on about needing money to escape bad relationships/have security for yourself, as if that justifies the SAHM snobbery

If you are in a bad relationship, there is no security. Full stop. There's only the consequences. If you have a bad divorce, both sides will lose the hell out anyway due to legal fees etc... that isn't made worse if you've been a SAHM it's shit all round.

Families should do what is best for them and their children and MN need to stop being so snobby. Not every SAHM has some horrid relationship that will go to shit in the next decade.

I am sorry that happened.

However you are right, its access to money that makes a difference. So if a sahm is being abused but has full access to money and can get out, she will be fine. But then have to sort out a way to live until the divorce as the abusive partner will most likely cut her off.

If a working mother needs to leave but she isn't in control of her own money, it will be difficult to get out. But then once she changes where her wage goes, she will then have some ongoing money.

Obviously, there are slight changes and details in certain situations that impact wether that's true.

But having fled abuse, the fact that I had an ongoing wage, made housing us alot easier than it would have done if I was just a sahm.

@SorryWoman

What I don't understand about SAHP is why you wouldn't have the self respect to want to pay your own bills basically.

Does this apply to women who do work but, thanks to their husbands' income, can afford a better standard of living than they would if they were single?

Never seen a SAHM trashed. But I do see women being held to account for allowing relationships to be set up in a way that gives them no security, which seems fair enough.

@DrSbaitso
Everybody can afford a better standard of living in a relationship with two working adults.

Working is about self respect though, in my opinion. If it wasnt then why do most women with children in other countries bother to work?

In my experience most of the really inflammatory threads (such as this one) are started by SAHMs saying: "why do working mothers pick on us?" I can't recall a thread started by WOHMs saying: "why do SAHMs dismiss us as not being able to raise our own children"?

I think there are thin skins and unpleasant tropes on both sides of this debate tbh:

• Why have children if you don't want to raise them?
• You'll never get the time back (my personal fave)
• I never wanted a career anyway
• It works for our family (the DH having a big job and the SAHM doing all the domestic work

Or on the flip-side

• What do you do all day?
• Your brain must have turned to mush
• What will you do when he runs off with his secretary?

Like most of these debates, there are grains of truth in these tropes which have been blown into huge, crude stereotypes here and a lot of people are lashing out because they are anticipating being criticised for their own choices so wanting to get the digs in first.

I think the trick to getting over this is for us to be ruthlessly honest about where our own biases are. I am a WOHM and a single mum and was previously in an abusive marriage so from a personal perspective I would be absolutely terrified of depending on someone else's money. And I do think every woman should have some money that is hers and not the family's.

That said if I had been married to a progressive, generous man I may have had a totally different outlook to the whole position of being married and shared money. So while I would never want to be a SAHM I have to understand that there are others for whom it doesn't feel like a risky situation.

Similary I have a close SAHM friend who pours all her energy into stuff like PTA and extra-curricular activities for her kids. She seems frankly rather shocked at the lack of interest I take in this sort of thing. Because I work 10 hours a day and have no support with childcare I'm just never going to be able to do the PTA thing and I do'nt have the bandwidth to do Mandarin classes for my kid. Maybe my kid will be marginally disadvantaged as a result of this. I think that is probably her perspective. I think its not important enough for me to wish I didn't work - and I don't have a choice so not going to beat myself up about it but I can see how she feels like this.

It's swings and roundabouts. There are advantages and disadvantages to being a SAHM and a WOHM. Most people get to the best solution for them.

It would be great to get to a point where we could talk about this sort of thing dispassionately without words like "jealousy" being thrown about. I don't think we're quite there yet.