To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

@Viviennemary

Why do they need anybody's approval. But never a week goes by with one coming on. Its a mad idea relying financially on another person' earnings for any length of time. Especially with the record divorce rate. It's family money?? Until he walks out the door. Honestly some propld do need a big wake up call. I wouldn't leech off another adult so it wouldn't be for me.

Oh do one. Why is it acceptable for people like you to use words like leeching? Maybe sahm (or anyone really as the OP isn't a sahm) put threads like this out there as they are fed up idiots writing statements like you have.

There are a multitude of reasons why women chose to be a sahp. Your post is simplistic and very insulting. Why can't you say it's not for you (which is fine) without being nasty? What does this tell us about you as a person?

What's interesting is on MN these sorts of posts get written a lot. But if someone makes a comment amount wohm being 'jealous' it's jumped on straight away.

It’s not leaching…shall I start sending DH a bill for childcare at the end of each month

Likewise he could bill you for half the rent, bills, food and children’s costs and everything he has had to pay for you from toiletries to clothes etc.

@DrSbaitso
Goes without saying but this thread has been focussing on SAHM.

DH openly admits he’d find it hard being at home with the kids all day.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

It’s not leaching…shall I start sending DH a bill for childcare at the end of each month

Likewise he could bill you for half the rent, bills, food and children’s costs and everything he has had to pay for you from toiletries to clothes etc.

Yeah.

I understand the contribution of a SAHP, but the "bill the WOHP" argument really annoys me because the SAHP could just as easily be "billed" for what they don't pay for (and the WOHP is paying, anyway...that's the point). And as a PP said...which bill would be higher?

@Viviennemary

Why do they need anybody's approval. But never a week goes by with one coming on. Its a mad idea relying financially on another person' earnings for any length of time. Especially with the record divorce rate. It's family money?? Until he walks out the door. Honestly some propld do need a big wake up call. I wouldn't leech off another adult so it wouldn't be for me.

I guess you'd only consider it "leeching off" the other partner if the working partner didn't want or care about the kids. My husband (and I!) always wanted a large family, and by staying at home for 10 years, I facilitated that for him, whilst he was also progressing a career that he loves. For our family it's worked out in everyone's favour, no one has leeched off anyone else or benefitted at the expense of anyone else.

I'm fortunate that I'm well qualified in my field, so even with a 10 year career break I was able to walk straight back into a decent job. I understand that many people are not so lucky. This is a genuine consideration. But staying at home with young children isn't lazy or somehow "cheeky" 😕

I criticise SAHM who see it as a lifestyle choice and live off the state because the childcare is just an excuse. I had my first as a single mum at age 19 and I went back to full time work. It is doable, if you can be bothered.

@Whiskycav

Its really not difficult to know you are not jealous of sahms, without having a dig at them.

Its also possible to know you are happy with the decision to be a sahm, without having digs at working parents and claiming its jealousy.

But it appears many people on both sides, prefer to to just out others down. Butvit is both sides.

But it’s mostly SAHMs who start these threads whining about other women not validating their choices. Why does it matter to them that other women don’t agree with them and have made other choices? I accept that SAHMs are now in the minority as most women work so may feel like their need to justify it but if they’re so happy, secure and confident in their choice then why care what randoms on the internet think?

What's interesting is on MN these sorts of posts get written a lot. But if someone makes a comment amount wohm being 'jealous' it's jumped on straight away.

Pish. The SAHM leeching comments are jumped on just as much as the WOHM are jealous and the classic ‘why have children if you aren’t going to look after them’.

Threads like this are a zero sum game that achieve nothing and generally upset a few posters whilst boring the tits off everyone who’s seen them countless times before

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

It’s not leaching…shall I start sending DH a bill for childcare at the end of each month

Likewise he could bill you for half the rent, bills, food and children’s costs and everything he has had to pay for you from toiletries to clothes etc.

She's just making the point she contributes in a different way. In response to the very rude post someone wrote calling sahps leeches.

@Applesonthelawn

Opting out of financial responsibility is your own choice but don't be surprised if other women who have fought for equality and fair treatment have a different view. Similarly women who have been left with full responsibility for their children after some unexpected turn of events and then wish they had thought more carefully about it earlier. You don't need to be defensive about it - you do you - but accept that yours is not the only logic.

Thats wrong. We fight for equality so that we have a choice. Not so we HAVE to work. Its so the choice to work or stay at home is an equally valid choice both with their ups and downs.

I do work, have most of the time. I am the higher wage earner and working meant that when I had to leave my marriage due to abuse, it was far easier.

But that doesn't mean, i dont also support people who make the choice to be sahm. People who choose to be a sahm are not damaging a fight for equality.

@LittleBearPad

What's interesting is on MN these sorts of posts get written a lot. But if someone makes a comment amount wohm being 'jealous' it's jumped on straight away.

Pish. The SAHM leeching comments are jumped on just as much as the WOHM are jealous and the classic ‘why have children if you aren’t going to look after them’.

Threads like this are a zero sum game that achieve nothing and generally upset a few posters whilst boring the tits off everyone who’s seen them countless times before

On this thread two of us responded to the leech comment. Countless responded to the jealous comment

Both comments are stupid by the way.

OnlyFoolsnMothers but the average women isnt married to the average man of the same age. For a start women marry 'up' whereas men dont to the same extent, women often marry an older man and the assumption its all down to choices the woman makes on pregnancy like not returning full time rather than her employer making choices (eg my example where i was allocated less strategic, shorter projects which stalled my progression)

@LittleBearPad I understand that young children need more hands on, practical care. My point is that it doesn't matter if someone chooses to continue to stay at home as their children get older. There seems to be an attitude from some posters that the stay at home parent has no business being "lazy". My point is that if you don't have to work your fingers to the bone and be exhausted and miserable then why should you?

If they want to spend their days reading, at the gym, gardening, watching TV, at the hairdresser, doing a course etc etc, what does it matter?
If their family unit works for them and everyone is happy then so what?? It certainly isn't "leeching" as a pp said because a family is a unit and all money/assets are shared.

If one or both of the partnership was unhappy then obviously it wouldn't be fair.

I suppose a good question for stay at home mums is how do they raise children not to believe a woman’s role is automatically in the home.

How do they demonstrate to the girls that they should be striving for a career, to fulfill their full potential?

And how do they drum into the boys that females were put on their earth to make their life’s easier?

If children grow up seeing daddy works and mummy does the housework, how do you push the boundaries and show them yes this works for us now, but women can be the highest earner, men can stay at home and care for kids, or both can work.

I just think we are continually reinforcing the stereotypes for our children. That’s why some men struggle to have a female boss. That’s why some men assume females isn’t he work place will look after them and sort everything out for them. That’s why some men will into ask the ‘girls’ in the office to arrange the meeting or take the notes.

Sexism isn’t to e fault of SAHMs, but I think they need to be aware of the roles they are modelling and ensure their children have a more balanced view.

@pinkcircustop

YANBU. It’s jealousy.

They’ll say it’s because of career or regaining independence or whatever but when they’re judgemental and nasty about it that’s just a convenient excuse because they wish they were able to be at home raising their own child too.

This is typical of how every single one of these threads go. You're just as bad as the posters who criticise SAHPs.

Views of SAHMs are very thread dependant.

No one is going to tell a sahm who has posted asking for tips of living through an extension build with two small DC's to get a job - it isn't relevant to the question. However, if she was posting complaining that the extension has over run and they're now in debt, well getting a job is an obvious way of mitigating the issue. Likewise the threads where the OP complains they can't afford a holiday abroad even though her DH earns £80k are always going to get people's backs up. Two parents working is a potential solution to a perceived lack of household money.

Parents who work will be supported if they are complaining about having to do all household tasks when there is a SAHM and the DC's are at school all day. No one is going to say 'oh the sahm needs a break as the school run is so taxing'.

Some people want to share their wisdom and/or have genuine concern. How many threads have there been on here when women in their 50s have been screwed over when their ex-H leaves and they discover the house is mortgaged to the hilt and their ex had no pension? They face a pretty tough retirement.

I was a SAHM for a few years because of childcare costs (I currently pay over £1k just for 3 days a week and another £150 a month for wrap around) would have meant too big a loss of our household income. But my DH now earns a lot more so we can cope with a short term loss for the benefits we will have in the future (extra income, my pension). But some people will never be in this position. Some jobs are just that, jobs and will never pay well to make it worth it. I think MNs really underestimate how bad some wages are. I faced quite a lot of criticism in real life when I went back to work. Apparently it was horrendous to put my 8month in nursery.

@Snookie00
But it’s mostly SAHMs who start these threads whining about other women not validating their choices. Why does it matter to them that other women don’t agree with them and have made other choices? I accept that SAHMs are now in the minority as most women work so may feel like their need to justify it but if they’re so happy, secure and confident in their choice then why care what randoms on the internet think?

I see you comment on these sahm threads lots. If you are happy and confident in your choice why do you feel the need to comment regularly on these sorts or threads?

There are situations in which people are SAHM because they don't really have a choice. One of my children is autistic and has a learning disability and that was very apparent from a very young age. Back then I didn't have a diagnosis but I knew they wouldn't cope in a nursery setting, which was all we could have found or afforded in our area (NE London, where 90% of places are taken before the baby is even born).

When they were diagnosed the benefits kicked in, for them and for me. Benefits are paid into my account.

DH earns more now, so ironically we probably could have afforded childcare. It wouldn't have worked though. DC very reliant on me. My only respite is when he's at his amazing specialist setting, although we are currently involved in a bit of a battle to receive direct payments for a PA (not to babysit him, to be around at the same time as me as an extra pair of eyes, and to facilitate me being able to take both of my children out as currently that's impossible to do safely). You may think 'Well you can work while they are at school', but you would have to be someone with no empathy or experience of raising disabled children to think that. 9.30 - 2.30 is literally the only time I get to wash my hair, push a hoover round, pick up prescriptions, do shopping, and sleep - some days I fall into bed and sleep until it's time to pick DC up, usually when we've had a run of bad nights.

If we earned more we could no doubt find an amazing kickass nanny cum carer with experience of complex needs to come and live in our six bedroom pile, with use of their own car etc etc. Alas we live in a three bed semi and can't afford that, even if I earned the salary I did pre-baby.

So yes I am a SAHM and probably will be forever, because thats the best thing for our kids. If DH left me I would probably qualify for quite substantial government support and that would have to sustain us.

Some people (like my mam who are career mam types) tell me to get a 'proper job' but like you said I ran the numbers many times and with 3 kids I would be LOSING money by working a standard full time job even with my specialised degree.

I would also lose precious time with my kids and be constantly stressed about organising school runs, pick ups, whose getting kid from x to y and z oclock while Im at work etc... and I wouldnt be happy.

I just see no reason to do that, I had my kids because I had a dream to raise them myself not to be broke, stressed and watch others raise them and enjoy their firsts etc...

I honestly dont care what others do though, I have my own life to focus on so looking for reasons to judge working mams would be a waste of my time and energy - we can all just make our own choices, Im sure we all have our reasons.

@Ideasplease322

I suppose a good question for stay at home mums is how do they raise children not to believe a woman’s role is automatically in the home.

How do they demonstrate to the girls that they should be striving for a career, to fulfill their full potential?

And how do they drum into the boys that females were put on their earth to make their life’s easier?

If children grow up seeing daddy works and mummy does the housework, how do you push the boundaries and show them yes this works for us now, but women can be the highest earner, men can stay at home and care for kids, or both can work.

I just think we are continually reinforcing the stereotypes for our children. That’s why some men struggle to have a female boss. That’s why some men assume females isn’t he work place will look after them and sort everything out for them. That’s why some men will into ask the ‘girls’ in the office to arrange the meeting or take the notes.

Sexism isn’t to e fault of SAHMs, but I think they need to be aware of the roles they are modelling and ensure their children have a more balanced view.

This is really an interesting post and is a good example of how to respond on these sorts of threads without being insulting.

In answer to your question I'm not sure. I think if you are a sahp for a short amount of time (say the preschool years) then it's probably going to be less of an issue then if you were a sahp for 10 years plus??

Newsflash
Not all women want a "career"
Not all women enjoy staying at home
Not all men hate childcare
Not all men earn more
Not all men resent their partner
Not all women who work wish they were at home
Not all SAHM feel under valued
Not all SAHP will be left high & dry
Most people make a choice that's the right one for them at the time.

Family dynamics are different. People want different things. Arguing about it on the Internet won't change that.

Could never have been a FT SAHM - I love my DCS but I missed the mental stimulation I personally get from my work and the interactions I have.
I managed to find the perfect combination of 3 days work/nursery and 4 days home.

I have had criticism for not looking after my DCS and being a SAHM, criticism from my work colleagues for not being FT and realising my potential, dumping on them etc etc. I ignore them all.

The ability to keep some work skills I think would benefit all women - no one knows what is round the corner. I now have two secondary school aged DCs. The SAHM or now recently divorced mums trying to get back into the workplace are struggling to find jobs at a salary they think they should command/ jobs that they want/ hours that they want etc are struggling

As someone whose DH left after 14 yrs of marriage - I am extremely grateful for the decisions I made and my ability to look after my family without recourse to anyone else but myself. ( Before anyone says - maintenance -none for 2 years and now a token!) I would not be as comfortable as I am now if I had been an SAHM - but I worked for my sanity to start with and then out of necessity. Being a SAHM makes women very vulnerable - it is not a position I wanted to be in so I made an active choice - I do not regret it nor should people who make other decisions.

No one size fits all.

Sahd here as I earn more and it wouldn't be worth him working. And the kids get the benefit of having someone at home with them. 3.5 year old has his universal 15 hours.

@crinklyfoil You're not being unreasonable. Many criticisms are veiled, but people love to judge others about a whole host of things/differences in how people choose to live their lives - particularly women, and of other women.
I am a SAHM, and I get acquaintances trying to weadle information from me as to how I can afford to not work and have my personal and family lifestyle. I am an enigma, it seems.
I am interested in people for who they are, and all my friends have different journeys & setups, career-wise, at this stage of life (late 40's, early 50's).

There is too much assumption and generalisation on MN - about most things.