My DH believes the vaccine will result in mass genocide

[IrisTee]

Im at my wits end. It's all he talks about.

He believes that covid has been over dramatised, masks are a waste of time and that the vaccine is going to kill millions of people over the next few years. He thinks it's a "depopulation" exercise and a way to control the masses. He said if I take the vaccine he will leave me.

He's been buying "survivalist" gear such as tents/ shovels/ emergency matches/ god knows what else. There's numerous packages arriving at the house every day. He's spent over a thousand pounds on this stuff.

Aibu to just be sick of the whole bloody thing??? I want to talk about something else, something normal but it all just comes back to this. What would you do?

There was a good booki read recently about a couple where the husband becomes obsessed with climate change. It's fiction but the op might like to read it, as it shows how the wife slowly changes from playing along, oh he is harmless to the point where he is clearly unwell and what then happens. It's called when the lights ho out... "Emma is beginning to wonder whether relationships, like mortgages, should be conducted in five-year increments. She might laugh if Chris had bought a motorbike or started dyeing his hair. Instead he’s buying off-label medicines and stockpiling food."

On rl note... You can ring the gp and explain your concerns but they cannot do anything if your dh doesn't approach them himself. They will listen but that's it.
If you can get him there on another pretence they might be able to raise the subject with him. But they can't do much else at this point. He's not a danger to himself or others so he'd not be sectionable.

You must make you decision on vaccination as a stand alone choice. I mean do you want it? If you do go get it.
There are loads of scenarios.. You don't get it for fear he leaves you but he leaves anyway... You don't get it for fear of making him worse but he gets worse anyway... You don't get it and you get covid and then long covid and he won't help.... Etc etc.
Don't let his irrational beliefs stop you protecting himself. It's not his choice to make for you.

Sorry typos on phone

Book is called *when the lights go out"

And I meant protecting yourself

@Weebleweeble

My anti-vaxxer friend has been proved right in a lot of her predictions. Eg this is not just a one off scare of a virus (as was thought at the start) but is going to run and run. That vaccines won't fix it, they'll come up with stories about the vaccine not working / new strains etc Not being able to fly etc - just control. Plus the information they 'need' on us for testing - phone numbers, nhs numbers, address, email etc etc .

She isn't as bad as the OP's husband but with a lot of stirring up online (she often offers me links online to the Truth) there must be many people who have suspicions or believe this.
But she hasn't fallen out with everyone over it. We agreed that she has her beliefs and I have mine and we just have to avoid the subject.

She hasn't been proved right at all. No one ever said it was a one off scare. No one said the vaccines would fix it.

Your friend is deluded and lying.

I'm really pleased to hear that he's agreed to try and get help.
Some conspiracy theories are actually quite interesting but some people, for whatever reason, be it MH or whatever, get so deeply sucked in that it's almost like a cult brainwashing. It would seem absolutely normal to him and yet terrifying for you on the outside.
You clearly don't want to leave him because you love him and want your husband back, so I really hope that he gets the help that he so clearly needs.

Pleased to see your update OP - I hope the counsellor helps.

@chorizoTapas you said:

"Utter tripe

Anyone could found an organisation and call it whatever the hell they want...

And you are aware that even I could write a book called the great reset and self publish it and watch as millions of dollars roll in because dimwits would but into it."

I'm afraid Klaus Schwab is not just 'anyone'; and the World Economic Forum is not just a tinpot start-up that self-publishes e-books.

Its board of Directors include Al Gore (ex-POTUS), Mark Carney (ex-governor of the Bank of England, now UN Special Envoy) and Christine Lagarde, President of the European Central Bank.

It has recently partnered with HRH The Prince of Wales to initiate 'The Great Reset Initiative', "to improve the state of the world."

In its own words:

"To achieve a better outcome, the world must act jointly and swiftly to revamp all aspects of our societies and economies, from education to social contracts and working conditions. Every country, from the United States to China, must participate, and every industry, from oil and gas to tech, must be transformed. In short, we need a “Great Reset” of capitalism.... the pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world to create a healthier, more equitable, and more prosperous future."

This initiative is publicly supported by the UN, the IMF, Microsoft, MasterCard and BP.

Whilst I do not think it's ok, or healthy, for the OP's husband to threaten to leave her if she gets vaccinated, I also do not think it's ok to dismiss as mentally ill anyone who expresses any doubts about the mainstream narrative.

Glad your husband has agreed to start getting help. Dh has a friend who thinks there's a chip in the vaccine and the government is trying to control the population etc. Also According to him as dh is double jabbed and we have sex, I no longer need to get the vaccine......

Whilst I do not think it's ok, or healthy, for the OP's husband to threaten to leave her if she gets vaccinated, I also do not think it's ok to dismiss as mentally ill anyone who expresses any doubts about the mainstream narrative.

Expressing doubts is one thing. Spending thousands on survival gear? Quite another. His behaviour to me appears to be at quite an extreme and worlds apart from just expressing doubts.

Also, this struck me...

"Honestly, it's all he talks about and thinks about- I don't know who he is anymore!"

He's consumed by it. It's not just expressing doubts.

OP I am so glad that your husband has agreed to seek help. That is fantastic.

My husband experienced a lengthy and terrifying mental health breakdown a few years ago. I ignored the chorus of 'leave him!' because, like you, I could not simply shake off the memory of who he really is (your post about the nice little things he does for you made me weepy ... I completely get that). I had to take steps to protect our children, and myself (I kept the car key with me at all times, for example, and slept in my clothes in case I needed to scoop up the kids and leave). It was a difficult road, but he recovered, and is still with us, and we are stronger than ever.

His willingness to see a counsellor is a chink of light. Inside the illness there is the 'real' person who is likely to be bewildered, confused and frightened. My husband spoke of this feeling of being trapped in his own madness. Agreeing to seek help is that person reaching out from inside the chaos (well, that's how I see it, anyway).

Ignore the appalling and ignorant language used on here. I've been shocked to see it.

Good luck. You have a long road ahead but I wish you all the best.

Feelingmeh have you checked out the Preppers board on here? Are they all having mental breakdowns?

I agree that it's not good for anyone to spend every waking moment thinking and worrying about anything. There are thousands of people spending all their time worrying about leaving their houses/wiping down their shopping/boycotting friends who haven't been double-jabbed etc etc. I would describe that behaviour as irrational.

They probably also spend a LOT of time thinking about it and talking about it to anyone who'll listen (which is probably most people, as the vast majority are feeling the same at the moment - check the polls showing support for continued restrictions & lockdowns/school closures/vaccinating children.)

Humans exist on a massive spectrum of beliefs and behaviours. That's fine. It becomes not fine when those beliefs and behaviours consume them to a dangerous degree. It sounds like the OP's husband is approaching that point, but it's the excessive degree of worrying that's the problem here, not necessarily the content of his worry.

@HBGKC

Feelingmeh have you checked out the Preppers board on here? Are they all having mental breakdowns?

I agree that it's not good for anyone to spend every waking moment thinking and worrying about anything. There are thousands of people spending all their time worrying about leaving their houses/wiping down their shopping/boycotting friends who haven't been double-jabbed etc etc. I would describe that behaviour as irrational.

They probably also spend a LOT of time thinking about it and talking about it to anyone who'll listen (which is probably most people, as the vast majority are feeling the same at the moment - check the polls showing support for continued restrictions & lockdowns/school closures/vaccinating children.)

Humans exist on a massive spectrum of beliefs and behaviours. That's fine. It becomes not fine when those beliefs and behaviours consume them to a dangerous degree. It sounds like the OP's husband is approaching that point, but it's the excessive degree of worrying that's the problem here, not necessarily the content of his worry.

Yes I understand that, thank you - I'm a mental health professional.

Taking into account everything that the OP describes, including the excessive nature of it, it sounds to me as though he may need MH support. I stand by that .

It sounds like the OP's husband is approaching that point, but it's the excessive degree of worrying that's the problem here, not necessarily the content of his worry.

Yes - I agree with you. Hence why my first post was to say that the content may point to a worrying mental health difficulty, or it may not. Hence my phrasing as "distinct possibility", not definite. The content of his thoughts can be and are often a feature of paranoid psychotic illnesses - but that doesn't necessarily mean his experience amounts to that particular diagnosis. But in my professional opinion it would certainly be worth a chat with a MH professional in any case to figure out what's going on for him.

@HBGKC

I was simply addressing your suggestion that anyone "expresses doubts about the mainstream narrative" is being dismissed as mentally unwell. That's not technically correct, at least not as far as this thread goes. I can say to a friend in casual conversation "hmm I'm not sure about this vaccine you know ...". That's me expressing doubts, but no one is going to say in mentally unwell based on that. This man's behaviour goes way, way beyond that, IMO. Thousands of pounds on survival gear and threats to leave his wife if she has the vaccine? That's not rational behaviour IMO and goes beyond simply questioning the mainstream narrative.

Get your vaccine and don’t tell him.

Good luck with councillor and good on you for sticking with him during this mental health crisis.

But protect your own health.

[quote EKGEMS]@Wantaweekinthesun Why do you call those encouraging the OP to leave "idiots?" Do you not think it's possible he could become violent if he's as delusional he sounds? I had to get my teenage son committed for acute psychoses as he was violent after not sleeping for two weeks. He was diagnosed with mood disorder and after three months stabilized. I don't mean this post as argumentative just curious especially with your experience with your loved one [/quote]
@EKGEMS I think that is perpetuating a stereotype that makes the stigma that suffers of psychosis feel a hundred times worse. I'm sorry to hear that your son was violent, but he is in the minority. The media sensationalises psychosis and makes suffers out to be violent people when the reality is that, statistically, those suffering from psychosis are actually less likely to commit violent crime than neurotypical people.

Besides, the OP's husband is not violent. To leave him because he might become violent is ridiculous, and, again, plays to stigmatising stereotypes. That's like saying husbands are often wife beaters, so you should leave your husband in case he becomes a wife beater. It's ludicrous.

Also, being delusional is not the same as being violent. If the OP had said that he was becoming aggressive, that would be different, but she hasn't. It's both statistically wrong and also prejudiced to assume that a person suffering from a potential psychosis (and this is potential, as it sounds like he might only be in the prodromal phase anyway) will become violent when they actually haven't done anything of the sort at all to indicate that they have any violent tendencies!

Glad to hear he will speak to someone, OP. It really sounds like he needs help. In the meantime, get your vaccine if you wish, keep it secret for now, and ensure your finances are safe, in case his spending escalates.

I hope all will be well for you both.

@IrisTee

Positive news - he's agreed to talk to a counsellor after a long chat.

That's good step.

Take care of yourself too

@IrisTee

He's even deleted Facebook/ WhatsApp because he thinks he'll be tracked.

Why anyone would want to track a middle aged man, who works from home and plays golf on a Sunday, escapes me. But, there we have it.

Sorry, I meant to answer, no we don't have kids. If we did, I'd probably have left.

When I think of leaving, I imagine him sitting on his own at his computer reading all these theories and getting deeper deeper into it. I don't want that :(

@IrisTee I have been through all of this with my own husband. He turned out to be in the prodromal phase of a psychosis. Like you, he believed he was being tracked all the time etc. Eventually, it turned into a full-blown psychosis. I love my husband with all my heart, and I did not want to leave him. I didn't leave him, and I managed to get him help. Now, he takes meds every day but he is back to normal, back to the way that he was when we first met.

Honestly, I really advise you not to listen to the people on here. Anyone calling him a "nut job" or similar is just an idiot who doesn't have a clue what she is talking about.

I really remember the fear and despair I felt during this time, and it is truly awful. OP, if you want to message me directly, please do. I can help with how to talk to him and where/how to persuade him to get help. It's not easy, but if you love him (as it seems you do), it can be fixed.

@IrisTee

Thad - unfortunately yes, very recently. He believes Biden cheated and that Trump is a hero. I am so embarrassed.

Good grief. I'd leave anyone who thinks Trump is a hero.

I'm with the PPs who suspect some kind of mental health crisis. Protect yourself, but if he's been a generally good, sound DH in the past, I'd have an eye to his wellbeing too.

In the case of older people with dementia, people on the Elderly Parents board sometimes recommend writing to the GP with your concerns for them to triage. Maybe worth doing? Then if he went to the doc for something else, they might be forewarned and investigate further...? (not sure if this is A Thing, but it does sound like an extreme case of All Not Being Well with him).

Thank you @Wantaweekinthesun for your insight and information

That's really great news that he's agreed to speak with a counselor

@feelingmehtoday thank you for your measured, courteous responses - increasingly rare in the this kind of discussion.

My comment was "I also do not think it's ok to dismiss as mentally ill anyone who expresses any doubts about the mainstream narrative."

I wasn't referring just to this thread; all over MN and in the MSM, whenever anyone expresses hesitation about getting vaccinated, concern about (actual, documented) side-effects, or wonders about the political/financial interests in play, 90% of the responses immediately jump down their throats accusing them of being insane conspiracy-theorists, or stupid, uninformed anti-vaxxers. There is no nuance, no debate - just knee-jerk condemnation and derision. I find it worrying.

OP, best wishes. I hope your husband is able to gradually detach and distance himself from the thoughts that are harming rather than helping him, and your relationship.

Good grief. I'd leave anyone who thinks Trump is a hero.

Same here. Although the curious thing for me is that Trump himself never actually claimed that Covid-19 was a hoax. He believed that it was real (and had it himself) but called it the ‘China virus’.

He also claimed the credit for the success of the vaccine programme.

Strange really, when you consider that so many of his most ardent supporters are conspiracy theorists about Covid and the vaccine.