He wants to leave them alone in a hotel room

[OrangeIsTheNewRed]

I have twin dc (6) with my ex and we mostly manage to coparent quite successfully. Occasionally though we have difficulties because of our parenting styles are very different.

In a couple of weeks he is taking them on holiday with his family and new partner. They're staying in the UK but far away and will need to stay in a hotel overnight.

When we were together and stayed in hotels with his family, his sister would routinely leave her young dc alone in the room while the grown-ups had dinner elsewhere in the hotel. She and her partner would check on them every half hour or so throughout the evening. I always thought this was totally wrong and irresponsible and when ex and I had our own dc, I refused to leave them alone and would stay in the room with my dc whilst everyone else got drunk over a long dinner/wedding reception/whatever. He and his family told me that I was paranoid and ridiculous.

We are no longer together (thank God) but now they're going to stay in a hotel and I won't be there. I have asked him to promise me that he won't leave them on their own, but to know avail.

There are so many dangers. Fire, they might wake up and be scared, they could hurt themselves, a member of staff who could be anyone could access the room. Not to mention Madeleine Mcann.

What do I do? Can I stop him taking them altogether? Help.

And yes, name changed but I am a long time regular. Penis beaker, have you cancelled the cheque yet, etc.

@FlyingBattie

Why just mention the mum and her job? Dad was a Cardiologist so what? Both parents made the decision

And it's irrelevant to their parenting. Doctors are human and fuck up in their personal lives as much as anyone else. We can't hold two doctors to a higher standard of basic parenting than anybody else.

No. But we can hold them to an average standard of safeguarding and parenting, just like the rest of us should be aware of.

Thing is, if you have had a G.P's training, or indeed a cardioligist training you have no excuse for not being aware of basic safeguarding. Anything else is a smokescreen.

At 6 why can't they just stay with him?

Presumably because he doesn't want to, otherwise OP wouldn't be in this position?

And I mention the mother because I am a single mother and see her as being in a leadership position. Which she is. And I am. We take the rap if anything goes wrong and quite rightly so. No excuses.

@robotcollision

YANBU. I've always thought it unacceptable to leave small children out of earshot in a strange place.

Just this really.

It's simple.

OK - slightly different view. DH and I did this with our DTs from about that age. Probably only a handful of times ever, and always in small hotels where they were fairly close by, and I would check on them every half hour or so. We weren't getting drunk but having a meal and a social evening without disturbing their sleep in our family room.

No-one could get in, but they could get out if they needed and we showed them where we would be if they wanted us (never big hotels). They were tired and were asleep before we left them, and never stirred. We knew our children - they wouldn't drink the mini bar or run riot when we were gone. We had no concerns about that sort of thing at all.

The only thing that shook me rather when I mentioned it to my sister a few years later - was when she said that if there was a fire or an alarm, we wouldn't be allowed to go upstairs to get them. All guests would be expected to leave, and we would have to rely on the staff/firemen to escort them out. That would be horrific - but hopefully the risks are minimal.

The Madeleine thing is irrelevant as PPs have said - no-one is going to get into a hotel room unless ground floor and windows open. The mini bar and taps etc will depend on your knowledge of your own children. There are so many variables, I don't think you can say it's fine or it's dreadful, without a lot more context.

But if you aren't comfortable with his plans, then that's all that counts. And it doesn't sound as though he is bothered about how you feel, or trying to compromise in any way, so he's a thoughtless pig. I don't know what your/his rights are though legally - but I hope you can sort things so you can relax.....

I think I'm really laid back but I would never dream of doing this, whenever my family has something like this I just let my DC 4yo stay up with us, I don't understand why he can't do the same? Anything could happen to them both alone. Just let him know you refuse to let your twins be neglected in any way!! Xxx

Still wouldn't okay. Not abroad. But still wouldn't.

U.K. no difference. If anything happened and mother had known about it, she would be held parlty responsible.

I would either refuse to let them go, or I would insist that he shows you booking for a trusted reputable in house childminder for the nights that he plans to dine out before you allow them to go. And tbh, I would also be tempted to convey this to your children too. So many members of staff have access to rooms, not to mention that children can open hotel room doors from the inside.

I have a friend who is lovely and very sensible. Many years ago, with her children were little, it was more acceptable for parents to leave children in hotel rooms whilst you popped downstairs for dinner. She said that she was sat by the restaurant overlooking the pool when she saw a small naked child wander across a bridge over part of the pool. So she decided to keep an eye out for his parents, which she assumed must be close by. She said that it took several seconds for the penny to drop that it was her own son who had woken up, let himself out of the room and was walking around alone and confused right next to the pool. She said that he blood ran absolutely cold and that she couldn't stop shaking afterwards at the thought of what might have happened.

No-one could get in

This is incorrect.

The Duty Manager will have a master key. The reception team will gave access to spare keys. The maintenance manager will have a master key. The head housekeeper will have a master key.

@Teenagehorrorbag

OK - slightly different view. DH and I did this with our DTs from about that age. Probably only a handful of times ever, and always in small hotels where they were fairly close by, and I would check on them every half hour or so. We weren't getting drunk but having a meal and a social evening without disturbing their sleep in our family room.

No-one could get in, but they could get out if they needed and we showed them where we would be if they wanted us (never big hotels). They were tired and were asleep before we left them, and never stirred. We knew our children - they wouldn't drink the mini bar or run riot when we were gone. We had no concerns about that sort of thing at all.

The only thing that shook me rather when I mentioned it to my sister a few years later - was when she said that if there was a fire or an alarm, we wouldn't be allowed to go upstairs to get them. All guests would be expected to leave, and we would have to rely on the staff/firemen to escort them out. That would be horrific - but hopefully the risks are minimal.

The Madeleine thing is irrelevant as PPs have said - no-one is going to get into a hotel room unless ground floor and windows open. The mini bar and taps etc will depend on your knowledge of your own children. There are so many variables, I don't think you can say it's fine or it's dreadful, without a lot more context.

But if you aren't comfortable with his plans, then that's all that counts. And it doesn't sound as though he is bothered about how you feel, or trying to compromise in any way, so he's a thoughtless pig. I don't know what your/his rights are though legally - but I hope you can sort things so you can relax.....

Don't be so stupidly naive to think "no one could get into a hotel bedroom"!

FFS people have broken out of prisons, I'm not sure what us basically an internal door is not able to be broken into ...

Either

By a staff member with a master key

Breaking the lock

Brute force

You got lucky, don't encourage others to be negligent as well.

Also the McCanns weren't drunk, so that's not a good argument either.

he Madeleine thing is irrelevant as PPs have said - no-one is going to get into a hotel room unless ground floor and windows open. The mini bar and taps etc will depend on your knowledge of your own children. There are so many variables, I don't think you can say it's fine or it's dreadful, without a lot more context.

Quote as above.

No it isn't far from it. It isn't irrelvant.

Someone tracked Madeleine McCanns parents and what they were doing and their habits. They checked the restaurant diary and found out when the kids were alone.

Nothing to stop that happening here.

If people thing all hotel staff are DBS checked in this day and age and with covid shortages they are naive through and through.
And even if they are DBS checked it doesn't necessarily help.

Access to hotel keys is easier than you think

Teenagehorrorbag I'm glad it all went well for you, and on the face of it, the risk of anything at all happening is small... but not one most people would want to take.
I couldn't imagine being able to relax and eat a meal having to get up every half hour to check on children, myself! I'd rather have an early and relaxed family dinner and book a couple of adjoining rooms so I could be close.

Hell to the fuck no.

I don't think I could even let them go now. You could speak to him, he could agree not to leave them but could just be paying you lip service and still have every intention of leaving them alone.

I just can't fathom how anybody (especially a parent) can be this dense when it comes to their children and risk mitigation. Fuck me.

There is a reason there is a safe in a hotel room for valuables.
A colleague left her little girl having a nap in the hotel room when attending a family wedding. She was checking every 30 minutes.
The second time she checked, a bag containing her purse and some jewellery left in the bathroom had gone. Thankfully the child was still asleep. Hotel rooms are not secure. I always double lock/ put the chain on when I go to bed. I would not entertain the idea of leaving my children alone in a hotel room, ever.

As an aside, I know a hotel in the UK that provides 'iPads' to both children and parents that act as a child video monitor so that the parents can eat in the restaurant downstairs and keep an eye on their children. The staff at reception also ask to be kept informed of any children left unattended in rooms. That said, it was a large hotel with multiple exits and I just wouldn't have felt comfortable using their system because if there was a problem, it would take 3-4 minutes to reach them.

@beigebrownblue

he Madeleine thing is irrelevant as PPs have said - no-one is going to get into a hotel room unless ground floor and windows open. The mini bar and taps etc will depend on your knowledge of your own children. There are so many variables, I don't think you can say it's fine or it's dreadful, without a lot more context.

Quote as above.

No it isn't far from it. It isn't irrelvant.

Someone tracked Madeleine McCanns parents and what they were doing and their habits. They checked the restaurant diary and found out when the kids were alone.

Nothing to stop that happening here.

If people thing all hotel staff are DBS checked in this day and age and with covid shortages they are naive through and through.
And even if they are DBS checked it doesn't necessarily help.

Access to hotel keys is easier than you think

Abductions of children by strangers are incredibly rare is what pp's (including myself) were trying to say. Yes, it is still a risk, a very small one. How individual people respond to that risk is up to them, of course. For me personally it isn't something that would be my top concern in this situation, as I feel that the risk of something like a fire or accident would be higher. In other situations, I would take it into more consideration (like that poor girl who was abducted from a tent in her garden- I think the risk of someone being able to gain access to a garden is much higher than that of someone gaining access to a hotel room, even if it's still statistically unlikely). Everyone judges risk differently and it may not rational, but that's fine. I think the one thing most people can agree on is that it's not a good idea to leave children unattended in a hotel room for a whole range of reasons.

I wouldn't leap to the solicitor route immediately, but start by emailing him asking him to confirm the contact details of the babysitting service that he will be using at the hotel, so you can arrange to make a goodnight phone call to the kids. If he mails back that he won't be using one because he doesn't see the need, then you've got a bit more evidence on your side if you want to go down that route.

I second the suggestion for a cheap nokia for calling the kids on too.

Also meant to add- I had a job once where I needed DBS checking as I went into schools for part of it. My manager made it quite clear she didn't trust them and felt they lured people into a sense false of security- as she said, they only prove you haven't been caught doing anything, nothing else.

They are six. It isn't old enough to be sent off backpacking but it is quite enough to be told that if they wake in the night someone will will need to wake X if they aren't asleep yet x

Also @Teenagehorrorbag you've covered off the stranger danger element, not that I think it's acceptable.

But you confirmed that you checked every 30 minutes, but what if one or both or your DTs was crying for 20 mins before you returned?

Awoken, in a strange place and frightened?

You're happy with that?

Please don't come back with "but they always slept" because we all know that children get ill quickly, have nightmare etc

But you could relax and enjoy your meal?

6 is a terrible age to be left alone. Old enough to get about and move/open things but too young to be able to stop themselves from doing stuff. leaving room, locking themselves out, burning themselves on hot water taps, fillling tub with water - flood or getting in and getting into difficulties. hurting themselves, opening windows, wandering out of hotel 'looking for their dad', ending up on road.. etc. etc. I would not let them go unless I had the name of the hotel and personally checked if the hotel had a babysitting services - letting them know there are twin 6 year olds who must not be left alone. I really wouldn't rely on 6 year olds to use a mobile phone.

@Sadiecow

Also *@Teenagehorrorbag* you've covered off the stranger danger element, not that I think it's acceptable.

But you confirmed that you checked every 30 minutes, but what if one or both or your DTs was crying for 20 mins before you returned?

Awoken, in a strange place and frightened?

You're happy with that?

Please don't come back with "but they always slept" because we all know that children get ill quickly, have nightmare etc

But you could relax and enjoy your meal?

There were two of them, so if one was upset the other could come and get us. But they weren't in the habit of being upset at night, they always slept well wherever we were, they weren't anxious children.

Not sure I would leave a single child, or two of different ages if one was quite young.

As I mentioned - we all know our own children. They were OK with that and knew where to find us, and being twins are very resourceful. Every child and every parent is different - but my DTs were happy to be left for an hour or two and we didn't have any concerns about that.

@FlyingBattie

*That is not too small to worry about. The risk is there, enough said*

Of course it is there, but it wouldn't be my primary worry at all. Not that would leave my children in a room alone, of course! But abduction would be very low down my risk of worries (although as you said, if it's on the list at all, thats enough)

Oh well done Flying Battie

But actually there isn't a hierarchy of risks, so let's not make it into a hierarchy shall we, that is truly pathetic.

Whether 'primary' worry or not, it;s a fucking worry and shouldn't be tolerated, along with the rest of the fucking list of safeguarding shit.

Of course there is a hierarchy of risk.
Risk is likelihood x probability.
I'm not sure why you want to make it into an argument of which risk is greater.
We've pretty much all agree that leaving children in a room alone is a risk we'd not take.

Likelihood x impact, I meant!