Furious with Selfish Son

[fib88]

I suffer from a rare autoimmune disease and on strong medication to stop my body attacking itself. I was put on the shielding list at the beginning of lockdown and also recently found out my vaccine didn’t produce any antibodies so I have no protection. My son is home from university and goes out socialising in London most days but promised to stay out of nightclubs as a compromise. Tonight I discover he’s at a massive nightclub event in London and has pretended to be elsewhere to me. When he comes home he will stay in his bedroom but I’m expected to share a bathroom with him, wash his filthy clothes and cook for him. He pretends to care but tonight I’ve had a real eye opener - I won’t, but feel like throwing him out. I’m so bitterly disappointed in him that he cares so little for my health. I could weep!

If you’re CEV and have no antibodies, then you’re in a much more dangerous situation than last year when everyone was in lockdown and we were dealing with a less infectious variant. We still see 300-400 deaths every week and the figures are rising (before someone shouts how do I know - I work in the field but you can also check this out coronavirus.data.gov.uk/). And no, this isn’t people who’d have died anyway and it wasn’t really Covid as anti-prevention people used to say when it was 80+ year olds mainly - it’s people of all ages.

Yes government decided to open up because a continued economic crisis is also bad, but that leaves people like OP in a really tough situation of having to avoid the virus without others making any allowances. England is the only country to also abandon social distancing and masks whilst opening up.

Doctors can check whether your vaccination has worked through an antibody test and do that for clinically at-risk groups. It’s also a part of many major research studies.

Knowing the scientific literature well, if I was OP I’d not live with someone who risks my life every day, and lies about it. There’s no problem with him having fun but he just can’t bring the virus back to a clinically vulnerable mum so would need to find his own place.

@KentuckyCriedFricken

What do you do in a regular flu season? You can’t expect him to put his life completely on hold. Why are you suddenly more at risk than last summer when no one was vaccinated?

Here's some science for you:

Scientific study from UK and China: Viral infection and transmission in a large well-traced outbreak caused by the Delta SARS-CoV-2 variant

Relevant extracts in this easy-to-digest article written by a brilliant microbiologist & science communicator: Coronavirus: We need to talk about the delta variant

Extracts from that one:
• the incubation period – the time between the person being exposed to Covid-19 and testing positive for the virus – has shortened. People with delta tested positive on average around 3.7 days after exposure compared to around six days with the earlier variants.

• the first time people test positive with the delta variant, their viral load is roughly 1000 times higher than people infected with the earlier virus variants. That’s strong evidence that delta has a much faster replication rate in the early stages of infection and suggests people will be shedding more virus, which is supported by the higher infectiousness we’re witnessing.

HTH

@Foundatarantulainmykitchen

There’s no possible way you could no that your vaccine has failed. Whoever told you that needs reprimanding

Really? You're so sure, eh? Actually, I do know. I'm taking part in a study that measures antibody levels. Don't make such sweeping declarations when you don't know what you're talking about.

fib, I am so sorry about your autoimmune disease.That is a trial for you. I had a friend with lupus and RA who had to protect herself.

As others have said, you must impress on your son that he has to see to his own laundry. It won't hurt him to put things in the washing machine; if he doesn't know how, and he should as he has been away at uni, you can instruct him to sort into whites, darks and lights, temperatures, etc; thoroughly clean the bathroom and the toilet after each use and see to his own food, washing up own plate and cutlery. If you are cooking for yourself, cook for him but he dishes up and eats it on his own and clears up afterwards.

As long as he does all that, which is not arduous, and keeps his distance, you should be OK.

He is young and it's natural for him to want to go out and about, doing 'young' things. However your health is very important and he would be mortified if his carelessness caused you to be ill. I daresay he thinks it won't happen, probably believing he is careful already. Children always see their parents as invincible but of course, nobody is.

Explain it all carefully, leaving nothing out. If there is anyone else close to both of you who can reinforce what you say, that would help. I think when it firmly sinks in, he will comply. You're his mum, he doesn't want to lose you.

Oh the joys of being a parent to teenage students.

Good luck to you, I hope you keep well. This flipping illness is a real pain isn't it.

How soon after getting your second vaccine did you test for anti bodies? I was reading another thread yesterday and people were getting tested monthly for antibodies and their numbers were going up. Some didn't get a lot of anti bodies until 6weeks + after second vaccine. If you aren't in the month by month trial, maybe get another anti body test to see if you have any now?

The majority of people will be ok and it will be mild op

can he go and stay with someone else? when is he planning to go back?

OP

Lock the doors and pack him a bag. Put the bag on the door step with a letter.

He must have a friend or relative he can stay with.

I have a few medical problems so I basically shielded even though I wasn't on 'the list'.

I have a bubble with one friend and my carer.

My friend was vaccinated quite early but when she came to visit she arrived in a mask, brought her own towel and soap so when she used the bathroom she could wash her hands and not use my soap and towels.

When she arrives she sits opposite me so we are more than 1m apart.

My carer did similar but needs to be in closer contact.

This is what people do when they care.

@KentuckyCriedFricken

What do you do in a regular flu season? You can’t expect him to put his life completely on hold. Why are you suddenly more at risk than last summer when no one was vaccinated?

Well maybe it might have something to do with:

• Covid is significantly more likely to harm someone than flu (roughly x10 risk of death)
• Delta variant significantly more transmissible than Alpha/original Covid
• Delta variant has (even) worse outcomes than Alpha/original Covid
• Cases were far lower last summer
• And, erm, last summer night clubs were shut, masks had to be worn, distancing in place

Other than all that, no change on last summer or indeed pre-Covid

@Pepperama

If you’re CEV and have no antibodies, then you’re in a much more dangerous situation than last year when everyone was in lockdown and we were dealing with a less infectious variant. We still see 300-400 deaths every week and the figures are rising (before someone shouts how do I know - I work in the field but you can also check this out coronavirus.data.gov.uk/). And no, this isn’t people who’d have died anyway and it wasn’t really Covid as anti-prevention people used to say when it was 80+ year olds mainly - it’s people of all ages.

Yes government decided to open up because a continued economic crisis is also bad, but that leaves people like OP in a really tough situation of having to avoid the virus without others making any allowances. England is the only country to also abandon social distancing and masks whilst opening up.

Doctors can check whether your vaccination has worked through an antibody test and do that for clinically at-risk groups. It’s also a part of many major research studies.

Knowing the scientific literature well, if I was OP I’d not live with someone who risks my life every day, and lies about it. There’s no problem with him having fun but he just can’t bring the virus back to a clinically vulnerable mum so would need to find his own place.

great post. just to say its not just england dropping masks while opening up. BC in Canada (not sure about rest) is opening up and masks are no longer required just suggested. I am double vaccinated and still use masks indoors even though hardly any cases at moment and think i will continue to do so back in UK. its seems a bit reckless to drop the mask requirement in my opinion.

@fib88

I suffer from a rare autoimmune disease and on strong medication to stop my body attacking itself. I was put on the shielding list at the beginning of lockdown and also recently found out my vaccine didn’t produce any antibodies so I have no protection. My son is home from university and goes out socialising in London most days but promised to stay out of nightclubs as a compromise. Tonight I discover he’s at a massive nightclub event in London and has pretended to be elsewhere to me. When he comes home he will stay in his bedroom but I’m expected to share a bathroom with him, wash his filthy clothes and cook for him. He pretends to care but tonight I’ve had a real eye opener - I won’t, but feel like throwing him out. I’m so bitterly disappointed in him that he cares so little for my health. I could weep!

When he is older he will cringe when he thinks how selfish he was. I am sure he cares very much but is just young. May I suggest a separate laundry basket in his room, and he must wipe bathroom taps etc after use. Basically treat him as if he is quarantining after travel. Perhaps meals in his room (tray outside room) and he wears a mask outside his room. Thats how my boys/their friends had it when they arrived home and in quarantine. Please get him to take covid tests - that also might remind him of how serious things are. and book that second jab for him. keep windows open as much as possible for fresh air.

People are making confused statements about the vaccine and the OPs personal risk level - catching Covid but having it much more mildly because the vaccine is working well for you is not the same thing as catching Covid with an autoimmune condition with evidence that the vaccine has not resulted in you having antibodies.

OP - I think you have a right to ask your adult child to either not do this whilst in your home or to stay elsewhere. You are forced to effectively shield because of government insanity policy choices. No one has the right to make you put yourself at risk unnecessarily.

@Foundatarantulainmykitchen

There’s no possible way you could no that your vaccine has failed. Whoever told you that needs reprimanding

What? They can test your blood for antibodies, a friend of mine who had a stem cell transplant for leukemia some time back has her bloods checked regularly. She received the covid vaccine a few months ago (post SCT) but apparently they thought she may not have retained the antibodies - something to do with the body not holding on to antibodies as well following a SCT (?). Anyway, the point is that can test whether the vaccine has failed in someone. So no, no one needs "reprimanding".

@sashh so you're not ECV but choose to live like that? That's not a life. Are you planning on carrying in like that forever? Are you seeking help for you anxiety around this issue?

@Dogvmarmot

You can not compare Canada and UK - have you checked their relative case rates? Yesterday Canada had 495 new cases, UK had nearly >40,000 that. Population of UK is roughly double Canada? So bears no relation.

If the UK had 1,000 cases yesterday the OP's risk would be very small. What England is doing right now is insane.

I understand why people need to try to soothe themselves with false comparisons but the scientific facts are there will be a lot more deaths in England between now and Christmas as a direct result of government choices than there would be if we had stayed at level 3, or stepped back to level 2.

Is nightclubbing worth that? A matter of personal ethics.

For a start you need to stop washing his clothes and cooking for him. You're "expected to". 🙄 Fuck that. He's an adult and can wash his own grundies!

Re covid risk, there's a middle ground between doing nothing and throwing him out forever.
If you are attending a crowded event you must find somewhere else to stay for the next 10 days.

You are worried about him going to stay with randoms. To a certain extent at his age, that’s normal. I get the pandemic. But it’s his body and his health to risk.

If you really don’t want this happening, you need to put your health on an equal footing to his.

An equal footing, presuming you have a garden, would be to put him up in a tent with a portaloo and bathroom hose to shower. Socially distancing at all times. Feeding him meals and drinks and ensuring he takes his washing to the launderette.

He has been at university so must be capable of washing his own clothes. Do not do his laundry.

My friend did kick her 23 yr old son out because her husband was CEV and the son was living at home and still going to mass gatherings in the first lockdown. She told him her husband's health was more important than his need to socialise and party and if he wouldn't stop he could find somewhere else to live. He bounced around a couple of relatives who also showed him the door. He is now living with his sister and he knows he has nowhere else to go after that.

His Mum won't have him home now due to that selfish behaviour. Your son is an arsehole and am sure he can find somewhere else to live if needed.

When he comes home he will stay in his bedroom but I’m expected to share a bathroom with him, wash his filthy clothes and cook for him.

His expectation? Disabuse him of it. Your expectation? Get a grip of yourself and say no.

And yes to what pp said about sanitising everything or shipping out. It is your house, your rules and he knows that which is why he's lying. Tell him to leave - even temporarily - and mean it.

@fib88 just wanted to offer a glimmer of antibody hope-
we are also in a testing trial-ONS/Oxford Uni and tested shortly after first jab-10days ish

I had pfizer and antibodies
DH AZ no antibodies

we got tested again after both had had second jabs and a bit more time and we both are positive for antibodies.
like a pp poster said they can build over time.

will you have the opportunity for another antibody test?

You need to stop putting him above yourself OP. I know it’s hard when it’s your child, but he’ll be safe enough staying elsewhere for a while and you are not safe while he’s in the house.

As a worst-case-scenario thought experiment, how do you think it will affect him if he brings COVID home and you die? He’d have to live with it forever.

He’s broken the rules he agreed to and is lying about it. If you let him get away with it without consequences, he may continue to do so for his whole future life. Actions should have consequences. Do you want him to treat a future partner this way?

Put yourself first and put your foot down. If you do, he might change his ways and stop lying.

He needs to isolate in his room for 10 days, during which time he can arrange some alternative accommodation.

At the end of the 10 days you throw him out (make sure you take his key!) regardless.

I don't agree kicking him out as PP's have suggested but I would advise him to isolate in his room if you're that worried.

It always surprises me on here that so many people are willing to just kick their kids out.

He's a teenager, teenagers make selfish decisions but if you make him isolate in his room he will know you're serious.

So many posters seem to think CEV people can just get on with it now. Due to the kind of conditions people on the shielding list have, 3/10 of us are expected to not respond to the vaccine and be no safer after having it.
Meanwhile, the government advice for us at the moment is to stay away from crowds, only meet people outside (and only the vaccinated) and make everyone do an lft before meeting us. Whilst taking away our employment protections and right to work from home.
So things might be back to normal for you, but for OP she is significantly more vulnerable now than she has been at any stage of the pandemic before.
OP, I'd say tell him he has to stay somewhere else. He has to choose, home comforts and home rules that are there to save his mother's life (they arent trivial!) or stay somewhere else. He's an adult and he needs to act like it.

people with auto immune diseases are still considered high risk because the vaccine is not effective there.

To the extent that someone with an auto immune disease has started a campaign for people with auto immune diseases to wear armbands to declare themselves at risk so as to be able to hold the expectation of social distancing. I don’t agree with it but Because it feels like branding certain individuals obviously he feels strongly about it and there will be others who feel the same.

The OP is still at risk. People like her are the ones who end up in hospital on ventilators because to all intents and purposes vaccines are ineffective, and as such their bodies are less likely to develop antibodies if they catch COVID as well.

All this talk about “letting young people live their lives/do normal things,” is such a load of bullshit. Since May and now this “young person” will have been at university with his friends, will have been going to pubs, bars, restaurants, he can now socialise with his friends. All “normal” things that young people do. y’know?

No-one needs to go to a nightclub, and no-one is really missing out if they don’t go to one. The fact that the number of nightclubs has decreased by around 50% in the past 10 years is ample evidence that the popularity of nighclubs is decreasing rapidly.

Let’s be honest, the only reason people flocked to nighclubs on Sunday night was as a massive 2 fingers up to lockdown. The majority of those people will probably never go to a nightclub again.

If not being able to go clubbing means that he’s somehow not being allowed to live his life then clearly he has far too many first world problems and needs to get over himself.

If nightclubbing is that important to him that he feels he’s missing out by going, then he can move out and go clubbing to his heart’s content.

Or alternatively he can not go clubbing, and can do everything else he wants while still living at home.

At that age my son was doing his own washing and quite rightly. He lived with me intermittently in his early 20s and always did things like washing up, cooked the odd meal. Now in his early 30s he is a wonderful husband and father, sharing household chores and child care 50:50 with his wife. I trained him well!

My point is you have a duty to yourself, to him and his future family to teach him that being a grown up and sharing living space involves the sharing of tasks that need to be done. Don’t be a doormat!