Mortified by what I've overheard from DH's workmates - AIBU

[poppingcandy1]

NC because I am utterly mortified by this

This evening DH had a work social and had some work friends round to the garden for drinks before they went out. It's well known that a young girl who used to work with them had a big crush on DH, nothing has happened between them however and he always said he found it cringey. This evening I arrived home with DDs before DH and mates went out, and I overheard DH's mate say "are you still wnking over ?" about the ex colleague who fancied him. His response was not impressive, he sort of raised his eyebrows and laughed - very laddy and disgusting really.

I feel really upset over this but don't know if I am being unreasonable. She was a pretty young woman and they probably all thought that, so maybe I shouldn't expect better especially as they had no idea I was there. But I just feel really uncomfortable about the whole thing and now am worried DH actually really enjoyed this crush she had on him and his feelings were more untoward than I thought.

Help kick some sense into me!

@joystir59

Men not challenging other men on this everyday misogyny is exactly the same as white people not challenging everyday racism. Exactly the same and equally unacceptable.

Completely agree with this.

Maybe posters on here could challenge other female posters misandry, too. Because it's rife and this site is full of it.

Racism and sexism in whatever direction, is wrong. But hey, ageism and misandry? They're both pretty much totally ignored on this boad.

He has DDs - how would he feel about blokes guffawing over them like that when they’re young women?

Many men compartmentalize. I'm not able to forget the image of a male member of my family jogging his beloved DGD on his knee while gloating that laws had been brought in to make sexual harassment claims at work more difficult. He has daughters, sisters, nieces, grand-daughters. But we're all different from the type of women who get harassed at work, apparently...

It wasn't her husband who said anything though, it was his workmate.

Unless the workmate's a mind-reader though, he was referring to a conversation where her DH had been expressing interest/attraction to a young female colleague. I think that's the larger issue.

But hey, ageism and misandry? They're both pretty much totally ignored on this boad.

Do you have any examples to hand? I always see both called out.

ageism and misandry

Whatabouttery.

In other words - 'Shutup'.

You know what, OP? All your DH needed to say was, "Lads, I'm a happily married man! One woman is enough for me," or something similar to shut them down. But he didn't.

He was in his own house too. This makes it worse because either you are in charge in your own house or one or two (or all) of your mates are massively disrespecting you and your wife. The one place where he could have shut this down he failed to do it.

@mathanxiety

ageism and misandry

Whatabouttery.

In other words - 'Shutup'.

It's really not. All these things should be called out. And yes, some of us do call out the less popular -isms on here. But the vast majority don't, and another proportion will actively complain if we do.

No-one gets to 'shut up' about anything if they point out racism, sexism or ageism.

What I find depressing is the assumption that it's ALL men.

It really isn't.

I have never ever in my life come across men who are so rough that they speak about women in such a casually disrespectful way.

I have sons that often have gangs of friends over drinking beers in our garden and I have never heard such conversation.

Som men do, for sure, no surprise there at all.

But ALL men. Definitely not.

@Moonwhite bollocks. Colleague may well have been taking the piss based in nothing more than the young woman in question having been perceived to like the OP's husband.

@pinkteapots
It's not a 'passing slipup' or some harmless once-off.

The husband let them get away with massive disrespect in his own home. We call women doormats for letting others do that to them. I'll call this husband spineless. It means the same.

I'll also join dots you seem unwilling to for some reason. When this spineless behaviour occurs daily all over the country in offices and factories - everywhere there are men in fact, and it does happen daily everywhere when men gather - it becomes a problem.

What the OP overheard was part and parcel of rape culture, the culture that is characterised by rape and sexual abuse of women and children, and which comes under the general umbrella of men treating women as unequal, as sex objects, as blank screens onto which they can project their own inadequacy, as second class citizens. This has dire consequences for women.

@saraclara, pointing out on this thread that there is sometimes misandry and ageism on MN is an attempt to shame women into silence.

It's saying 'Only if you're completely innocent of all isms yourself can you complain about misogyny'.

@saraclara

Maybe posters on here could challenge other female posters misandry, too. Because it's rife and this site is full of it.

Racism and sexism in whatever direction, is wrong. But hey, ageism and misandry? They're both pretty much totally ignored on this boad.

This. Not only are they ignored but the response can be pretty insulting if you call them out. I have to be pretty annoyed to bother. Interestingly S&B is the worst for ageism.

Interestingly S&B is the worst for ageism.

It is. In fact the majority of ageist comments towards women do seem to be from other women (on here and ‘in real life’)

Out of interest OP are you more upset about the way they were speaking about this young woman or about the possibility of your H actually wanking over her?

I think the language is foul but I think it’s normal to have sexual fantasies about other people. I’ve had female friends tell me they wank over men at work and a couple who even do it in the loos when they are there. I know a lot of people who ‘put it in the bank for later’ as it were.

[quote mathanxiety]@saraclara, pointing out on this thread that there is sometimes misandry and ageism on MN is an attempt to shame women into silence.

It's saying 'Only if you're completely innocent of all isms yourself can you complain about misogyny'.[/quote]
That 'shame women into silence' door hinges both ways though, doesn't it?

It's quite possible to agree that these men were disgusting (including OP's husband) and refer to misandry and ageism on this board at the same time. It's not one or the other, it's generally poor quality behaviour that ultimately does affect women.

Either that or, using your analogy - since we're all so flawed, we should all perhaps 'shut up'? Or, we could stop attempting to silence women altogether and try to understand what it is they're actually saying?

It’s not how all men talk. It’s how lots of men talk.

The people on here who think their husbands/partners wouldn't talk like that. They do. You just don't know about it.

And although the language is vulgar, the thought it expresses isn’t necessarily.

What your husband wanks over in unknowable. I wouldn’t beat myself up worrying that he masturbates while thinking about an attractive forbidden woman. What do you wank over?

It's quite possible to agree that these men were disgusting (including OP's husband) and refer to misandry and ageism on this board at the same time. It's not one or the other, it's generally poor quality behaviour that ultimately does affect women.

When the balance of power in this very unequal society, and when men's sense of superiority over women is enforced and reinforced by 'banter' such as this, then it behoves us as women to speak out about it every time it happens, to empower each other to speak out about it, and to stop thinking we need to be responsible for solving the problems of everyone else in society before we tackle the enormous problems that hold us back.

Women need to centre ourselves. We spent thousands of years not doing that, and when we finally woke up we experienced massive opposition, and still face it. Everything by way of rights that we have achieved as women has been fought for, long and hard, and we have many battles still to fight. Our society is nowhere near where it should be for women and girls. Let's stop pretending that other people have worse problems.

*And waiting for men to pick up the courage to speak out against the oppressive attitudes, speech and behaviour they see in others is a fool's game.

@MasterBeth

It’s not how all men talk. It’s how lots of men talk.

This...

As a woman with quite a few guy friends this isn't completely uncommon.
Most of the time it is a joke - because one of my best mates would make a joke like this but he would also step in if a man was harassing a woman - it's just like having a dark sense of humour I suppose?
Friends have forgot their telling to a woman and I've promptly reminded them how crude they were being.

It's pact mentality unfortunately.
What is important is how is he behind closed doors?
Does he act disrespectfully to women?
Because actions speak louder than words after all.

@Moonwhite

He has DDs - how would he feel about blokes guffawing over them like that when they’re young women?

Many men compartmentalize. I'm not able to forget the image of a male member of my family jogging his beloved DGD on his knee while gloating that laws had been brought in to make sexual harassment claims at work more difficult. He has daughters, sisters, nieces, grand-daughters. But we're all different from the type of women who get harassed at work, apparently...

It wasn't her husband who said anything though, it was his workmate.

Unless the workmate's a mind-reader though, he was referring to a conversation where her DH had been expressing interest/attraction to a young female colleague. I think that's the larger issue.

That is grim. And with views like that I'd be keeping children in the family away from him for fear they'd internalise his attitudes. I mean, to openly gloat about your role being preventing victims of sexual harrassment being treated fairly in front of your family and small children... lost for an adjective for that!

@mathanxiety

It's quite possible to agree that these men were disgusting (including OP's husband) and refer to misandry and ageism on this board at the same time. It's not one or the other, it's generally poor quality behaviour that ultimately does affect women.

When the balance of power in this very unequal society, and when men's sense of superiority over women is enforced and reinforced by 'banter' such as this, then it behoves us as women to speak out about it every time it happens, to empower each other to speak out about it, and to stop thinking we need to be responsible for solving the problems of everyone else in society before we tackle the enormous problems that hold us back.

Women need to centre ourselves. We spent thousands of years not doing that, and when we finally woke up we experienced massive opposition, and still face it. Everything by way of rights that we have achieved as women has been fought for, long and hard, and we have many battles still to fight. Our society is nowhere near where it should be for women and girls. Let's stop pretending that other people have worse problems.

I agree with every word of this, and I hope particularly that anybody raising children or either sex does too. Thank you for putting it so eloquently.