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Original poster

Mortified by what I've overheard from DH's workmates - AIBU

291 replies

poppingcandy1 · 21/07/2021 00:11

NC because I am utterly mortified by this

This evening DH had a work social and had some work friends round to the garden for drinks before they went out. It's well known that a young girl who used to work with them had a big crush on DH, nothing has happened between them however and he always said he found it cringey. This evening I arrived home with DDs before DH and mates went out, and I overheard DH's mate say "are you still wnking over ?" about the ex colleague who fancied him. His response was not impressive, he sort of raised his eyebrows and laughed - very laddy and disgusting really.

I feel really upset over this but don't know if I am being unreasonable. She was a pretty young woman and they probably all thought that, so maybe I shouldn't expect better especially as they had no idea I was there. But I just feel really uncomfortable about the whole thing and now am worried DH actually really enjoyed this crush she had on him and his feelings were more untoward than I thought.

Help kick some sense into me!

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 21/07/2021 22:49

^There’s a fair amount of seething hatred from women towards other women too. Let’s not forget that. The wrongs that have been done to me in my life have mostly all been caused by other women, not men.
I do agree that there is a lot of misogyny in the world and that women are not on a level playing field to men. It’s a shame some women are unpleasant to each other too however.^

@CatherineAragon
And plenty of men range from unpleasant to murderous toward other men. This doesn't alter the fact that men as a class, regardless of status and temperament, benefit enormously from the way society is set up, and men as individuals do not pay for the damage they cause in families they ruin by violence and abuse, do not pay for the upkeep of children they father, do not get prosecuted for rapes they commit by the thousand.

We don't have to be saints toward each other in order to fight the system that is set up for us to not be promoted at work, to earn less then men do for the same work, to experience poverty if single mothers, to fear for our personal safety when we go out at night, to have to suck up street harassment on a massive scale beginning in the preteen years, to be murdered at the rate of two per week in England and Wales by a male partner or former partner.

Saying 'Let's not forget' that women can be mean to each other is setting up an equivalence between women's nastiness and men's outright, naked violence and shameless oppression. Did you intend that?

NiceGerbil · 22/07/2021 01:15

Not caught up sorry just last few posts.

'There’s a fair amount of seething hatred from women towards other women too. Let’s not forget that. '

I see this said a lot and I believe it's happening. But I've honestly not come across that much at all. I've met the occasional horrible nasty bullying women and girls at school. And they were so nasty.

But it's very rare.

I'm being genuine here, what sort of form does it take as adults? I don't get how this obviously common experience has passed me by. I 100% believe women who talk about this btw and it's not a sort of clever me. I'm honestly interested.

Anyway yes of course women can be awful.

However they've never wanked at me on public transport, whispered rape threats to be on the bus, told me to get in the car on the way home from school, shouted obscenities, spat at me, sexually assaulted me, followed me late at night,... And the rest.

I need to catch up on the thread. Probably will see my post is off the point!

NiceGerbil · 22/07/2021 01:23

Caught up. Interesting.

My experience and opinion.

I have always had friends of both sexes. I like men I like women. I don't like the women at work who not just put up with but 'give as good as they get' to get in with the men. The ones who say they don't believe in feminism they're strong. Who show they are 'one of the lads' buy making sexualised jokes. Cool with paying for sex strip clubs etc.

I'm not one of them. So sorry rambling my experience.

NiceGerbil · 22/07/2021 01:38

I've always got on well with men I think because I have a very silly sense of humour, I'm a pretty serious boozer, I've always had a relaxed attitude to risk, I mean there's other stuff. Or they get on well with me?!

In most of my jobs I've ended up in the group of let's go out all the time hard drinking and the rest blokes.

I should say not lad types. More a mishmash of men who are 'not like that'. The 'nice' ones.

I'm a lifelong feminist in my core and I've never kept it under my hat.

When the group decides you're 'one of them' in order to not fuck up their world they need to forget you are female.

Anyway IME men have set ways of bonding. And avoiding conversations in any way meaningful (unless very drunk).

Sports/ TV and film/ gaming etc. And s lot of silliness. And of course shared understanding that objectifying women/ judging their looks/ going cor she's fit is a key thing. IMO they are bonding over s shared understanding that women are lesser.

Many don't mean it. Some actively dislike it. When it comes to male bonding though. I have never seen any bloke say anything. Some go quiet. Go to the bar. Say urgh no I don't want to see that gross clip haha.

The loss of standing/ losing their place / being seen as a killjoy is too much a barrier to overcome.

Ops DH didn't say anything. That's as far as any man I've met has ever gone when they are thinking shut the fuck up this is horrible.

Just my perspective.

mathanxiety · 22/07/2021 04:41

IMO they are bonding over s shared understanding that women are lesser.

This ^^

Many don't mean it. Some actively dislike it. When it comes to male bonding though. I have never seen any bloke say anything. Some go quiet. Go to the bar. Say urgh no I don't want to see that gross clip haha.

The loss of standing/ losing their place / being seen as a killjoy is too much a barrier to overcome.

Basically, their standing among men is more important to them than any other consideration.

This is why pursuing the feminist agenda is more important than anything else, and certainly more important than any one else's agenda. If we don't put our interests first, we will never get anywhere and economic oppression, rape, and murder will continue.

YouShouldLeave · 22/07/2021 06:31

@NiceGerbil

I've always got on well with men I think because I have a very silly sense of humour, I'm a pretty serious boozer, I've always had a relaxed attitude to risk, I mean there's other stuff. Or they get on well with me?!

In most of my jobs I've ended up in the group of let's go out all the time hard drinking and the rest blokes.

I should say not lad types. More a mishmash of men who are 'not like that'. The 'nice' ones.

I'm a lifelong feminist in my core and I've never kept it under my hat.

When the group decides you're 'one of them' in order to not fuck up their world they need to forget you are female.

Anyway IME men have set ways of bonding. And avoiding conversations in any way meaningful (unless very drunk).

Sports/ TV and film/ gaming etc. And s lot of silliness. And of course shared understanding that objectifying women/ judging their looks/ going cor she's fit is a key thing. IMO they are bonding over s shared understanding that women are lesser.

Many don't mean it. Some actively dislike it. When it comes to male bonding though. I have never seen any bloke say anything. Some go quiet. Go to the bar. Say urgh no I don't want to see that gross clip haha.

The loss of standing/ losing their place / being seen as a killjoy is too much a barrier to overcome.

Ops DH didn't say anything. That's as far as any man I've met has ever gone when they are thinking shut the fuck up this is horrible.

Just my perspective.

And you still hang out with them? Do you not like women?
Blossomtoes · 22/07/2021 08:37

We need to stop wringing our hands about all the other isms and expecting that they are our problems to solve. They are not. Our efforts must focus on ourselves

Ageism is very much many women’s problem to solve. Or do you think it only affects men? That’s like saying racism isn’t a white person’s problem. One of the biggest problems in modern society is that people’s efforts are focussed on themselves. It’s why there’s so little sense of community.

brokenbiscuitsx · 22/07/2021 08:55

Ageism is often perpetrated against women by women. Most blokes won’t give two hoots if a woman over 50 is wearing a denim jacket. Almost all of the “what you should wear now you’re 30/40/50/60” articles are written by women. You look on the S&B forum and there are still women who are still very ageist in their comments.

CatherineAragon · 22/07/2021 09:02

@mathanxiety

^There’s a fair amount of seething hatred from women towards other women too. Let’s not forget that. The wrongs that have been done to me in my life have mostly all been caused by other women, not men. I do agree that there is a lot of misogyny in the world and that women are not on a level playing field to men. It’s a shame some women are unpleasant to each other too however.^

@CatherineAragon
And plenty of men range from unpleasant to murderous toward other men. This doesn't alter the fact that men as a class, regardless of status and temperament, benefit enormously from the way society is set up, and men as individuals do not pay for the damage they cause in families they ruin by violence and abuse, do not pay for the upkeep of children they father, do not get prosecuted for rapes they commit by the thousand.

We don't have to be saints toward each other in order to fight the system that is set up for us to not be promoted at work, to earn less then men do for the same work, to experience poverty if single mothers, to fear for our personal safety when we go out at night, to have to suck up street harassment on a massive scale beginning in the preteen years, to be murdered at the rate of two per week in England and Wales by a male partner or former partner.

Saying 'Let's not forget' that women can be mean to each other is setting up an equivalence between women's nastiness and men's outright, naked violence and shameless oppression. Did you intend that?

No I didn’t, and I completely agree with you.
Blossomtoes · 22/07/2021 09:06

If only ageism was confined to what you should or shouldn’t wear @brokenbiscuitsx! Its effects are pernicious from prejudice against older women in the job market to patronising treatment by shop assistants and hairdressers.

It’s as if you cease to be individual when you reach a certain point in your life and become part of an homogeneous group alien from the rest of society. It makes you extra angry if you’re a feminist!

Demortuisnilnisibonum · 22/07/2021 09:35

So many interesting posts. We are beginning to alter make behaviour. I don’t usually agree with Priti Patel, but I’m pro making wolf whistling a crime - it’s a tiny step, but useful in educating men about treating women as human beings and equals. Laddish behaviour in groups is difficult to change and we can only begin by calling it out and we will, of course, be accused of having no sense of humour! By ‘we’ I’m referring to men, as well as women. Coming back to the OP, I would mention to your DH that you overheard the colleagues’s remark and were upset by it. Wait for DH’s reaction. If he’s decent, you could have an adult discussion about how men talk about women, if he isn’t, then at least you’ll know him better and can make your own decisions from there.

Demortuisnilnisibonum · 22/07/2021 09:35

*male behaviour

MasterBeth · 22/07/2021 09:36

[quote stellaisabella]@MasterBeth 🙄 yes because whether or not he's looked at some photos is the issue here. [/quote]
@stellaisabella You brought up wanking to Instagram. There’s no reason to believe he’s ever done this. Nor is there any reason to believe that he has ever told his mates that he’s done this.

So the issue to me is then “How well did he respond to the crass joke at his/her expense?” to which the answer, in my opinion, is not well, but not awfully (he didn’t extend the joke at his colleague’s expense, although he didn’t shut it down). In the circumstances the OP describes, that’s all you could reasonably fuming at. I think it’s fine to be fuming at that, if that’s how you feel, but you seem to be making all kinds of assumptions about the OP’s husband and this woman.

MsTSwift · 22/07/2021 09:50

Dh is unusual as he will not join in and would speak up. He has genuine friendships with women and does not see women as lesser in any way.

You know what though? This has harmed his career and socially. Although he is excellent at his work he is not “one of the boys” so excluded from senior management although he is technically better than all of them. I know some of the more laddish husbands of my friends 🙄 at him (he asked them to stop sharing porn on their WhatsApp) though the ones that really know him adore him. So it’s not easy for decent men to stand up to this is what I think I’m saying.

brokenbiscuitsx · 22/07/2021 09:53

@Blossomtoes

If only ageism was confined to what you should or shouldn’t wear *@brokenbiscuitsx*! Its effects are pernicious from prejudice against older women in the job market to patronising treatment by shop assistants and hairdressers.

It’s as if you cease to be individual when you reach a certain point in your life and become part of an homogeneous group alien from the rest of society. It makes you extra angry if you’re a feminist!

Oh I totally agree. It was in reply to comments about the S&B board but yes I’ve experienced a type of ageism. At least I feel it was ageism.

My new team in work treated me differently when they found out I was late 30s. They thought I was early - mid 20s (not a brag trust me) and are mostly in their 50s, so they’d call me sweetie and darling and fuss me like their child. When they found out I was 40 next year they went from embarrassment to treating me (I feel) with more respect.

Maybe that isn’t ageism but it’s how it made me feel.

GigiGreen · 22/07/2021 10:12

Sorry this happened, I can't imagine how you feel. However, I think you should talk to your husband about this. Stuff like this only bubbles under before it will eventually burst out in another area. Get ahead of it before it does. Your feelings are valid and I think you can get through this, but it's important that you talk about it with your husband before you start to get resentful and build a wall up in your relationship. All the best and sending hugs.

Blossomtoes · 22/07/2021 10:22

That’s a really interesting example of kind of reverse ageism @brokenbiscuitsx. It never occurred to me it could work that way round, thank you for opening my eyes!

Since my early 60s I’ve noticed a distinct difference in the way some people treat me in shops - ironically it’s the “darling” and “love” thing that annoys me the most. I changed hairdresser after I was the recipient of a tilted head and “Oh bless” one day. I just managed to restrain myself from asking who the fuck she thought she was talking to.

I’m massively cheered that you get it because I probably wouldn’t have when I was 40. It really does need to stop.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 22/07/2021 11:12

mathanxiety
This is why pursuing the feminist agenda is more important than anything else, and certainly more important than any one else's agenda. If we don't put our interests first, we will never get anywhere and economic oppression, rape, and murder will continue.

How do we do this and, in context of the OP, what is/was the right response to that horrible scenario?

I've been reading your posts and those of others and I can see what you mean - specifically it was the bit of your post that I've bolded above.

Bella43 · 22/07/2021 12:05

OP Have you spoken to your husband about this? If so, what did he say?

Lefthousewithpooinhair · 22/07/2021 14:13

I can’t believe no one here has not had a fantasy about a work colleague?
It’s completely normal to find people other than your partner attractive, and equally normal if you find someone really attractive to fantasise about them.
If he is faithful to you, then there shouldn’t be a problem, but if you’re concerned that he is not faithful, it might be worth dealing with the trust in your relationship first.
It sounds like this was just a joke that went a bit too far, but if it was me and my partner, I don’t think I would be so upset that they had a fantasy about someone else. IMO It’s so naive to think just because my partner thinks I’m attractive and together with me that they will not find anyone else in the world attractive either. And people are often sexual, in private about things that turn them on, if they admit it to you or not.

CatherineAragon · 22/07/2021 18:15

@MsTSwift

Dh is unusual as he will not join in and would speak up. He has genuine friendships with women and does not see women as lesser in any way.

You know what though? This has harmed his career and socially. Although he is excellent at his work he is not “one of the boys” so excluded from senior management although he is technically better than all of them. I know some of the more laddish husbands of my friends 🙄 at him (he asked them to stop sharing porn on their WhatsApp) though the ones that really know him adore him. So it’s not easy for decent men to stand up to this is what I think I’m saying.

Sharing porn on WhatsApp? Jesus Christ.
ginandbearit · 22/07/2021 20:27

Im just astonished at the naivety of some people on here .."porn on whatsapp?" ...hahaha

FayCarew · 22/07/2021 21:29

I told a supermarket checkout assistant today that I don't like being called Darling and find it patronising.

I'd not met her before.

TheSunShinesBrighter · 22/07/2021 21:38

@FayCarew

I told a supermarket checkout assistant today that I don't like being called Darling and find it patronising.

I'd not met her before.

I’m glad it’s not just me.

An overly confident man (mid 20s?) has just been employed as ‘front of house’ in a restaurant we’ve been going to for years.

Within the time it took for us to be seated I was called darling, sweetie, love several times over.
Every sentence ended in one of the above pet names.

It was unbearable. My DH wasn’t with us and told me it’s a way of asserting authority. Yes, very patronising as I am almost twice his age.

FayCarew · 22/07/2021 21:50

I don't really wish to be called anything like that by someone I don't know.