Mortified by what I've overheard from DH's workmates - AIBU

[poppingcandy1]

NC because I am utterly mortified by this

This evening DH had a work social and had some work friends round to the garden for drinks before they went out. It's well known that a young girl who used to work with them had a big crush on DH, nothing has happened between them however and he always said he found it cringey. This evening I arrived home with DDs before DH and mates went out, and I overheard DH's mate say "are you still wnking over ?" about the ex colleague who fancied him. His response was not impressive, he sort of raised his eyebrows and laughed - very laddy and disgusting really.

I feel really upset over this but don't know if I am being unreasonable. She was a pretty young woman and they probably all thought that, so maybe I shouldn't expect better especially as they had no idea I was there. But I just feel really uncomfortable about the whole thing and now am worried DH actually really enjoyed this crush she had on him and his feelings were more untoward than I thought.

Help kick some sense into me!

Men talking men talk. It's grim but many speak like this out of earshot of their partners, some are disrespectful enough to do it within earshot too.

OP Don’t check his browser history if banter about him getting off on a colleague bothers you 😬😆

Talk to him and tell him how it made you feel.

You have DDs.

Surely you can explain to him that in a short space of time they will be the young girls that men like him (old enough to be their father) and his mates talk about wanking over.

In fact, if he wasn't aware that you heard those comments and saw his reaction, surely it would have been possible for your DDs to have heard and seen it too?

Does he still think that's appropriate?

Is that how he would like men to treat his daughters?

He hasn't just been disrespectful to you, he's been disrespectful to the young woman he worked with and pretty grim too.

Men seem to be in a competition to see who can be the most laddish ! Horrible but unless he is still in contact with the young lady ,then best ignored

This would piss me right off. If I were you I would start with the fact that if his 'friends' can't control the way they speak in your house at a time when you and your daughters might be around - which you were - they are not welcome. Then I would say 'you didn't exactly disagree with him about wanking over X either did you, that was pretty upsetting'. Approach it as pissed off.

I really doubt your H's reaction means anything significant and was more about shutting it down while still keeping face as others have suggested, but it's pretty fucking gross anyway.

Eurgh, I’d be mortified to hear DH speaking like this about any woman. It was obviously a private, drunken chat you definitely weren’t supposed to hear and I’m guessing wish you never had. Men can be absolutely vile creatures.

@VerticalHorizon - It’s so refreshing to get a really insightful male perspective on issues like this. I think you hit the nail on the head and your experiences absolutely confirm what I’ve always suspected to be the dynamics of a lot of male group behaviour. I’m in total agreement with you.

FWIW- you sound like exactly the kind of man I’d love to go out with!

It is normal ladish banter. Gross but that is what's said. No intention or meaning behind it

@pinkteapots ask a man what precautions he takes to stop himself getting raped and murdered on the way home from a night out. When he tells you about holding his keys a particular way, walking with confidence, cruising the road if a strange woman walks behind him, telling a friend where he is and always texting when he's home safe so his loved ones know a woman hasn't raped, assaulted, or murdered him I'll talk about misandry being as significant in our culture as misogyny.

It all starts with objectifying discussions such as the op describes - OP I don't think your husband joined in per se but he didn't shut it down either.

@ThePlantsitter
I wasn't excusing objectification of women, what i was saying is the OP's husband wasnt doing the objectifying, he simply didnt stand up against it... no one does that 100% of the time against all the various isms, including you or me or anyone. Anyone who says they do is a liar.

The point re misandry stands - every few comments on this thread and so many others is a poster saying she hates men / men are shit / men are stupid / men are useless / men are selfish. Zero balance. Some women are all those things too. Some men are not those things. But i dont see it getting called out as the bigotry it really is.

That women are more often the victims of rape does not justify misandry or mean all men are bad. So i'm unsure what you are trying to get across, forgive me if i'm missing a finer point.

Fwiw, porn is a far bigger or at least as big fueller of objectification of women (and men, and children) as lewd talk in social groups. And yet many on here seem ok with porn but not the OPs husbands lack of reaction. Porn is described as just porn whereas the girl was a colleague so she matters. No. Porn uses individuals. It also exhonerates the watcher from making any effort whatsoever to be generous, sociable, responsible. And it stifles those traits in viewers of any age, though the younger the viewer the more damage it does to their growth as a generous human being.

It’s all show to demonstrate how big and cool they are and show they’re ‘in with the lads’.

Exactly this. I’d challenge your DH openly about it -ask him brightly, “Sooo….are you still wanking over (colleague) then? Your charming mate (horrible mate) seems to think so. Do tell….”

And watch him squirm….

Another one here who spent many years being a girl then woman in the company of groups of lads. Yes, this is absolutely how most men speak when they're together. Yes, it's horrible, but as @VerticalHorizon says it's much more about using crass humour to establish a hierarchy, trying to out-do one another, and saving face than it is about the actual subject of conversation.

A guy once told me that men don't actually mature past the age of about 14- "we just get better at hiding it". I think that's so true. They hide it from us, and it comes out when we're not around. And anyone who thinks that no man they know would talk like this, I have news for you. About 3/4 of the men you know will talk like this, and the other 1/4 will probably just say nowt rather than get dragged into a row.

I wouldn't take any of this 'banter' seriously or personally. They're all mouth and no trousers. What scares me is:

1. as PPs have said, they seem to make no connection between the women they make these revolting comments about and the women they're related to
2. this meat-market attitude to women is very much why most women have faced some kind of assault or sexual harrassment in their lives.

Yep, it is, sadly, normal. It doesn't mean he fancies her or that anything happened. He just went along with it.They're jealous she didn't have a crush on them instead.

It's up to us as parents to train our kids to not perpetrate stuff like this and call it out.

So they are all in YOUR garden, disrespecting you like this. Including your husband. I’d honestly leave over this. Vile.

I would turn it around
"Ooo that dave from your work is sooo hot. I had a good go at myself in the bathroom last night thinking about him"
Let's see what he has to say about that!!

Even if the husband didn't comment inappropriately he didn't call his mate out. We need good men to be allies not worry about saving face.

Surely it's no surprise that a heterosexual man might think about a woman when he's masturbating.

OP,

It's grim.

He's one of the type of men that speak about women disrespectfully and he has daughters.

Grim.
I can well imagine your disappointment.
You will have lost more than a bit of respect for him.

He can't un say it and it sounds like it wasn't the first time either.

I think I would say how disappointing to hear the father of your daughters, in their home speak so disrespectfully of women.
Tell him that he has really let himself down in your eyes.

I can understand your mortification.

I would be mortified to hear my husband soeak like that, mortified because I married him and he sleazes over young girls in the office.

I had a colleague where it was a standard joke about him w*ing over Stunning New Colleague. He was married and had the hots for her. Yes, it's male banter.

There's more to this than meets the eye, and I doubt that it is the colleague crushing on your DH.

Sorry.

Not RTFT.

OK, there seems to be two things to address here.

First the comment itself. To be honest, it sounds like your husband tried to shut down the conversation in the quickest way possible. He knows you're in the house and may overhear. Denying it, or calling his friend out on his behavior is only going to extend the conversation and make it more likely that you'll overhear. A half laugh and move on is probably the quickest way to shut his mate up in the circumstances.

Had you not been around, then he might have actually shut him down properly, or he might have gotten involved in the "laddy banter". You know your husband better than anyone on here, so you're most likely to know what he's like.

As for Issue 2, has he masturbated while fantasising about this woman? I'm not sure that's any of your business. Men fantasise over people other than their wives. I've seen enough on this website to know that women do exactly the same thing. People are entitled to their own internal sex lives and as long as he's not actually acting on them, then I'm not sure theres anything you can or even should do.

in my experience, it's 1 or 2 ring leaders and another half dozen sheep.
The ring leaders tend to be major porn watchers who show it on their phones and think everybody else wants to see). The others to varying degrees join in.
Once in a while, you'll get someone who says 'fuck off, I don't need to see your crap' - not in an aggressive way, but making it clear they're not going to play the game.

What happens if the tedious self appointed Archbishop of Banterbury misjudges his audience and the ratio of encouraging acolytes to reluctant half-smile and change the subject people is wrong? Mixed with a couple of confident "no time for this shit" men? Does it ever happen that one person speaks up and one or more of the quieter ones are also emboldened to sort of join forces and say "Yeah shut up Arch nobody even cares?"

I think VerticalHorizon gives good insight into the reasons for this behaviour. That poster's take on it rings true with me having worked in a male dominated industry many years ago and having listened to this type of "banter" in the works canteen. It's very cringey and makes them all seem like total morons. You could always tell which of the lads didn't go along with it and were embarrassed, but invariably no one said anything to stop it because it was usually a slightly aggressive, supposedly "alpha" / macho type leading the whole thing.

My husband hates this type of thing and has called it out in the past - having said that, knowing his friends as I do I'd be very surprised if they engaged in this sort of thing. Maybe have a word with your husband, ask him how he would be feel if his daughters had to listen to this type of talk in the canteen of their first/summer job? Might give him food for thought.

Eurgh

I worked with men for over 20 years. I never met another woman in my industry. I’ve heard it all! Men can be extremely vulgar.

However. Just because they can and they do. Does not mean you have to just go. Oh well. You know your own boundaries. Explain how disgusted it made you feel x

He didn’t take it further he shut it down in a way that didn’t make him lose face.

I think your dh’s reaction was about right if he wanted to shut down the conversation without reacting in a way that would increase any teasing further down the line.

I totally agree with comments like these. I’ve said yabu. Of course the comment was disgusting but it’s man banter unfortunately. The way to shut man banter down is to make as little out of it as possible. I’ve learnt the hard way having been reduced to tears by vile men in the past.

I agree this is toxic masculinity. But it’s going to come out some way or another unfortunately. I agree with some posters comments about rape culture and the slippery slope. We need to find a balance though. Because unfortunately we are now in a time, where a substantial proportion of men think the pendulum has swung too far and women, especially feminists are the enemy.

I’d sit hubby down and tell him what you heard and that it’s not appropriate and hurtful.
Sit back and watch him grovel for a few days.
I hate all this macho shit😡