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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask if this is cultural appropriation or appreciation?

192 replies

HappyDays40 · 20/07/2021 10:23

Ever since the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement came into a more public sphere in the UK. Im looking at the world in a different way. Trying to consciously notice things that I may have said in the past which although I thought were showing an interest in other cultures are now termed as micro aggressions as they "other" people and reinforce that white as the default "normal".
An example of this is " where are you from?" Although this was not said with an aggressive tone I totally cringe when my friend looked at me pointedly and said Manchester. What I was asking about was her cultural heritage and I could have worded this better and won't do it again.
I also realise now what the terms white privilege and white savoiur mean. In the past I have spoken up for my friend if they have been abused and have taken charge when my friend has been perfectly able to speak for themselves. I am learning to stand with not stand on behalf of people unless they ask me to.
Its my responsibility to reflect and thinksnthings through not for people to educate me. Yes it makes me feel uncomfortable facing myself and questioning my past actions but I feels its the only way for change. So here is the AIBU bit: My son has a Carribean themed day at school today the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. The children have been learning Bob Marley songs and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures which I think I have felt okay with.
This morning when I took him in Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers and the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.

The children were having a great time. There are some children in the class who are black and one dad took one look at the whole thing dropped his child off and as we walked out he said he is going to complain to the school as this is cultural appropriation. I dont know him so I couldn't ask him about it and Im trying ro get my own thoughts in order.What do you guys think?

OP posts:
JonahofArk · 20/07/2021 16:18

@Nengineer

It's not racism, it's a fact. There are unsavory aspects of any country, especially where education isn't widely available.
Just because you say something is a fact doesn't make it so. Your comment is racist.

In any case, it's clear to me that you are not prepared to have a constructive discussion so I'll leave you to it.

Whiskycav · 20/07/2021 16:18

Irish days or st Patrick’s always comprise of lots of Green, big hats, leprechaun images and Irish stew or soda breads

We have travelled around England white a bit, so my kids have attended quite a few schools and Irish day has never been that. My mum is from Ireland I was born there. So that's something I would note.

That sounds like a American Irish 'paddy's day'. Which is not 'Irish day'

GoWalkabout · 20/07/2021 16:27

Loving the purity spirals in action on this thread Hmm and much more appreciating the posts which seek nuance, compromise and agreement.

Whiskycav · 20/07/2021 16:31

@Ratalie

I'm nothing of an expert on Carribean culture, and I think a lot depends on the wider context of the day, but if does seem a as reductive to have the kids dressing up in Rastafarian colours. Rastafarian's account for about 1% of the population of Jamaica (let alone the rest of the Carribean). It does seem to smack of stereotyping, and not a very accurate stereotype at that.
Op saw a couple of minutes of what they were doing. She has no idea what the actually educating was covering.

So no one can say it was stereotyping, because that could just have been showing one small part. Because other parts of it could have pointed out that, the music and colour were only a small part and educated on other parts for the rest of the time.

As another point, people from this background helped out in some activities.

It really annoys me that some people are just assuming that these people went along helped out, contributed to racisim and cultural appropriation without knowing it. Or are ignorant to it? Don't understand these issues?

We just assume because Bob Marley was playing it must offensive and stereotyping.

TableFlowerss · 20/07/2021 16:36

So what if you turned it round and another country had a British themed day and they played the Beetles, had tea to drink and afternoon tea?

Would you find that offensive?

caringcarer · 20/07/2021 16:43

Singing Sands has a very good point.

Ratalie · 20/07/2021 17:19

@Whiskycav

I did specifically say that a lot depends on the wider context of the day...

Bigtoejoe · 20/07/2021 17:38

I can't pretend to be informed on the issue and like the OP am trying to learn, but I think I read that this was a reception class ie 4 and 5 year olds? And 4 and 5 year olds who have missed an awful lot of pre-school and their first year at school to boot. If that is the case, I think some posters are waaaaay overestimating the breadth and depth of what you can cover with a reception class in a week, never mind a day! The average mumsnetter 5 year old apparently reading Harry Potter does not represent the average reception child by a long stretch.

SleepingStandingUp · 20/07/2021 18:04

[quote Fangsalot89]@ChainJane

How is it racist? Surely reggae music is a huge musical part of the Caribbean (or at least I remember it being from the various trips I’ve taken.)[/quote]
Yes but apparently can only be played in the presence of someone of Caribbean heritage. Because saying white people arent allowed to play it or enioy it is far less racist, obviously 😐

SleepingStandingUp · 20/07/2021 18:10

but if does seem a as reductive to have the kids dressing up in Rastafarian colours
The kids were dressed in the colours of the Grenada Flag. Why is that an issue?

Nengineer · 20/07/2021 18:10

My husband has 29 nationalities at his international school. Nobody from Egypt ever complained about Ancient Egyptian day where the white teachers dressed up. But to be fair, the Egyptian kids were heavily involved and at the forefront of their day. Same with Italy and Greece and Arabic dayband as for National Day, the local kids really get to show their joy.

SleepingStandingUp · 20/07/2021 18:14

@paddlingon

Got distracted by squabbling dc.

So for this school the solution is for the school to request parental support for running these things.

My school has a multi cultural committee with parental involvement. Then you either get involved so you are happy with what is happening or you lose your right to complain about others who are leaning in.

Parents have been involved - food, poetry and something else that op knows of. Her only issue is the choice of music at the entrance and the lack of people of Caribbean origin to meet the children at the gate
AwaAnBileYerHeid · 20/07/2021 19:38

@jonahofark 🙄 I don't need to "get off my arse" and do something about it because I'm not remotely bothered about it. And I would think it absolutely pathetic if any of my fellow country men/women were offended by such a thing. I didnt once say that I was offended...did i?

I really think this whole 'cultural appropriation' thing is nonsense. If people want to fight for actual rights, then good on them, but people getting on their high horses about others using and enjoying parts of anothers culture - laughable nonsense.

BrozTito · 20/07/2021 20:12

I didnt say anything is racist, greenrubber? I pointed out why the 'white people have it as bad' whataboutism you threw out is nonsense

JonahofArk · 20/07/2021 20:38

[quote AwaAnBileYerHeid]@jonahofark 🙄 I don't need to "get off my arse" and do something about it because I'm not remotely bothered about it. And I would think it absolutely pathetic if any of my fellow country men/women were offended by such a thing. I didnt once say that I was offended...did i?

I really think this whole 'cultural appropriation' thing is nonsense. If people want to fight for actual rights, then good on them, but people getting on their high horses about others using and enjoying parts of anothers culture - laughable nonsense.[/quote]
@AwaAnBileYerHeid you used Scotland as an example, I didn't. I also didn't say you were offended, I said if you are then why don't you do something about it?

Classic whataboutery. Why not focus on the actual topic at hand rather than relating everything back to yourself?

Greenrubber · 20/07/2021 20:56

@BrozTito
I have not read all your posts so can't comment only a few
This is all I'm trying to get across
I get racism is a big issue but I think people jump on it too quickly like this thread! I don't see the any racism in the situation we are talking about
In the uk we are over sensitive to it but I'm talking about white people who deem it offensive on behalf of a different culture/race
Why do we get to say what is offensive to someone of that culture?

Agree or disagree with me it makes no difference

PrincessNutella · 20/07/2021 23:17

i think cultural appropriation is bad, but considering that the Nazis committed genocide and did things like kill a quarter of the population of Belarus, etc., culturally appropriating the swastika doesn't seem like the top ten of my personal "thanks for nothing, Nazis," list. But yeah, I 100 agree, thanks for nothing, Nazis. Oh, except for the Volkswagen and Fanta, I guess? Not much of a tradeoff there, though.

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