AIBU to ask if this is cultural appropriation or appreciation?

[HappyDays40]

Ever since the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement came into a more public sphere in the UK. Im looking at the world in a different way. Trying to consciously notice things that I may have said in the past which although I thought were showing an interest in other cultures are now termed as micro aggressions as they "other" people and reinforce that white as the default "normal".
An example of this is " where are you from?" Although this was not said with an aggressive tone I totally cringe when my friend looked at me pointedly and said Manchester. What I was asking about was her cultural heritage and I could have worded this better and won't do it again.
I also realise now what the terms white privilege and white savoiur mean. In the past I have spoken up for my friend if they have been abused and have taken charge when my friend has been perfectly able to speak for themselves. I am learning to stand with not stand on behalf of people unless they ask me to.
Its my responsibility to reflect and thinksnthings through not for people to educate me. Yes it makes me feel uncomfortable facing myself and questioning my past actions but I feels its the only way for change. So here is the AIBU bit: My son has a Carribean themed day at school today the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. The children have been learning Bob Marley songs and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures which I think I have felt okay with.
This morning when I took him in Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers and the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.

The children were having a great time. There are some children in the class who are black and one dad took one look at the whole thing dropped his child off and as we walked out he said he is going to complain to the school as this is cultural appropriation. I dont know him so I couldn't ask him about it and Im trying ro get my own thoughts in order.What do you guys think?

It sounds poorly thought through. Imagine having a french day where everyone wears stripy tops, carries a baguette and listens to Edith Piaf. They are learning a stereotype. I would send feedback to the school and hope they learn from their own mistakes.

I think the idea of cultural apropriation is nonsense. There is though an obvious line where it becomes idiotically disrespectful (and that line can be seen in the photos of Justin Trudeau's family in india)

I'll hazard a guess that school doesn't teach black history. Any of it.

Playing a bit of Bob Marley, popping on a bit of red yellow and green is so easy and comfortable though isn't it?

The problem here is that the school apparently didn't appear to actually include those they so publically proclaimed they were including - they've simply grabbed a couple of stereotypes and gone with it. It all looks a bit about them and an image they want to project.

Yes I would hope that as part of 'Caribbean day' the students would also learn some history, learn about colonialism, about Windrush -- learn about Toussaint Louverture, for example, as well as Bob Marley.

I didn't get the message that it was all about Rastafarians and reggae and nobody was wearing any fake dreads or anything just colours.
It definitely was not intended as a piss take but did feel quite vulgar.
The resst seems to have been better thought though but the entrance was pretty bad. Im not sure how to address it though and as a white woman with no direct experience of any aspect of Carribean cultures I don't think I am in a position to.
However I can go at it from the angle of asking them to maybe pick some aspects to focus on rather than the Carribean as a whole.

A. Why on earth ask someone where they come from?

B. Maybe the school are exploring Caribbean culture on a deeper level within the curriculum and this fun day is just the surface dressing?

@dreamingbohemian I think you are right. Massive learning opportunity to teach the children about colonialism history. They are four but I think these things should be started early. I think that the whol education system needscto be decolonised but that is a different conversation altogether.

You’ve never been interested in where someone’s from? How odd. I love hearing about people’s lives.

@worktrip It was when I was at school and it was a very poorly worded question in relation to a conversation we were having about my family originating in Ireland. As I said I am not proud of this but will not do it again. I was 16 now nearly 40.

Is this a weird anthropological version of the archaeological "wow days" that start or end topics, where everyone learns about how Romans wore the sheet off the spare bed, boxers and 40 safety pins?

I’ve seen the difference explained as being whether the thing being appropriated / appreciated has been willingly shared by those whose culture it is. So things like music, food, literature etc can all be appreciated because it’s willingly shared, but things like sacred or religious clothing, ceremonies, specific styles of hair etc are not willingly shared and so are appropriated. It’s not a perfect definition (I don’t think there ever could be) but it’s a good guide.

The event you’re describing does sound a bit off - obviously you only saw a snapshot but it sounds like there were quite a lot of stereotypes being relied upon. As PPs said, the Caribbean is a hugely diverse area with a host of unique traditions. Reducing it down to Bob Marley and themed clothing doesn’t sound great.

I guess because I’m an immigrant and live in a city of immigrants (Sydney) I often ask about people’s family history etc and they generally love talking about it. I think there are ways of asking though and it’s not like it’s the first thing I’d ask.

It sounds rather lazy and cliched, but more a clumsy attempt at appreciation than appropriation. Wait and see how the day develops.

I think it depends what they did after they were welcomed in. Did they learn about specific customs and traditions that went beyond stereotypes?

@PausePlease

I don’t know if it’s cultural appropriation, but it sounds like ‘white peoples slightly naff idea of the Caribbean’ ie. Bob Marley and red/gold/green.

Did the school involve parents with Caribbean heritage in planning? Might have been a bit more meaningful if so.

I agree with this.

As a white British woman, I feel as though I can't really comment on this or give any insight. But I do think the school should have collaborated with any Caribbean heritage families before they did this. To make it more authentic and inclusive.

Would it be racist or cultural appropriation if the theme was Scotland and they played bagpipes, wore tartan kilts and had haggis for lunch? Or is it only certain races whose offence is catered to?

@AwaAnBileYerHeid I guess because there is a lot of sensitivity surrounding black culture at the moment which perhaps could deem this irresponsible...

A. Why on earth ask someone where they come from?
I get asked that all the time when I meet people where I live. My accent is different as I li ed in the nort east and I live in the north west now.
Last time I asked someone who was a different colour from me was because i couldn't place her accent. It was a place outside London and on from the north. I knew that i knew the accent I just couldn't place it. Turns out she lived 3 streets from my aunt and although she didn't know her we had a great chat about the area. I didn't ask her because of her colour and she didn't assume that I did.

Our school had Eid celebrations which was lovely, we were all supposed to bring in sweets. The last minute the school said not to, they'd provide them.

And then my kids came home to tell me there was loads of sweets that the Muslim kids were told not to touch as contained pork gelatin

Why even bother?

@MostlyMaple but it's been this way before the whole George Floyd, BLM movement. Even looking a few years back at something as ridiculous as the Simpsons, there was outcry that Apu was racist towards Indian people because he spoke with an exaggerated accent and worked in a corner shop but not a word uttered about the stereotypes that Groundskeeper Willie played into ie daft accent, angry ginger alcoholic etc. Granted we do have a good few angry alcoholics up here lol, but it isn't the point. Why is it ok for "cultural appropriation" against one race or culture but not others?

Would it be racist or cultural appropriation if the theme was Scotland and they played bagpipes, wore tartan kilts and had haggis for lunch? Or is it only certain races whose offence is catered to?
I'd question if a school did that too as it's reducing a culture to lazy stereotypes.

It's surely a good idea to show children different cultures but would need to be done sensitively, with input from people who are actually from that culture. I think the term 'cultural appropriation' seems - in my opinion - ONLY to be used against white/western people, by many who don't really consider the topic as a whole. I can't imagine ever using it myself as almost all peoples and nationalities have 'culturally appropriated' things from other cultures and countries.

[quote AwaAnBileYerHeid]@MostlyMaple but it's been this way before the whole George Floyd, BLM movement. Even looking a few years back at something as ridiculous as the Simpsons, there was outcry that Apu was racist towards Indian people because he spoke with an exaggerated accent and worked in a corner shop but not a word uttered about the stereotypes that Groundskeeper Willie played into ie daft accent, angry ginger alcoholic etc. Granted we do have a good few angry alcoholics up here lol, but it isn't the point. Why is it ok for "cultural appropriation" against one race or culture but not others?[/quote]
None of it’s ok and your “but what about THESE people as well” argument is garbage.

I don't think it's cultural appropriation but it is very ill considered. No one is benefiting from the commercialisation of a culture.

I think it's actually racist. A massively diverse culture all reduced to some stereotypes.

If they had involved families who have family members from these areas it could have been extremely interesting and a great way of learning about cultures whosr history is neglected in this country, when it's not neglected its often described in terms of the impact of white people and not the actions of everyone involved.

Is this for real? It sounds atrocious!