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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask if this is cultural appropriation or appreciation?

192 replies

HappyDays40 · 20/07/2021 10:23

Ever since the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement came into a more public sphere in the UK. Im looking at the world in a different way. Trying to consciously notice things that I may have said in the past which although I thought were showing an interest in other cultures are now termed as micro aggressions as they "other" people and reinforce that white as the default "normal".
An example of this is " where are you from?" Although this was not said with an aggressive tone I totally cringe when my friend looked at me pointedly and said Manchester. What I was asking about was her cultural heritage and I could have worded this better and won't do it again.
I also realise now what the terms white privilege and white savoiur mean. In the past I have spoken up for my friend if they have been abused and have taken charge when my friend has been perfectly able to speak for themselves. I am learning to stand with not stand on behalf of people unless they ask me to.
Its my responsibility to reflect and thinksnthings through not for people to educate me. Yes it makes me feel uncomfortable facing myself and questioning my past actions but I feels its the only way for change. So here is the AIBU bit: My son has a Carribean themed day at school today the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. The children have been learning Bob Marley songs and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures which I think I have felt okay with.
This morning when I took him in Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers and the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.

The children were having a great time. There are some children in the class who are black and one dad took one look at the whole thing dropped his child off and as we walked out he said he is going to complain to the school as this is cultural appropriation. I dont know him so I couldn't ask him about it and Im trying ro get my own thoughts in order.What do you guys think?

OP posts:
RaindropsOnRosie · 20/07/2021 12:14

It's not cultural appropriation, it seems more like racism. It's sterotyping all people from the carribean to be rastas who listen to popular reggae (Most reggae they played probably would've only been the stuff popular in England). There's a lot of negative stereotypes regarding rasta culture and I can't imagine they were discussing those.

Whether the teachers or children were white or otherwise, it could have been a much more thoughtful day of appreciating all Carribean culture, not just the culture white people like.

BrozTito · 20/07/2021 12:17

plod Im 31, i think it was on the national curriculum at the time maybe? think it was in year 6, I went to school in driffield

EssentialHummus · 20/07/2021 12:18

I agree with singingsands - wait and see how the rest of the day panned out. It's near the end of term, everyone is absolutely knackered; if anything does need addressing I'd raise it next time they announce Caribbean Day (or whatever) and suggest a few things that might be done differently, and perhaps offer some practical help if you can.

I'm a white-passing ethnic minority who was born in one African country and grew up in another. I think it's quite easy to distinguish curiosity/making conversation from racism/stereotype.

Ozanj · 20/07/2021 12:24

@OneTC

The fact people were in uproar about Apu yet Groundskeeper Willie (who is taken the piss out of all the time and mocked relentlessly because of his nationality) seems to be OK? Double standards really.

And virtually no Scottish people gave a fuck either, then some people seemed to get retroactively offended when they realised other people were

The problem with Apu was never that he was Indian or a stereotype. It was that Hank Azaria, a white man, was putting on an Indian accent to play him. When you consider India’s colonialist past and how many actors with real Indian accents are trying to compete for what little acting work there is, it is racist and disgusting. Racist because as always Hollywood lets a white actor shove himself into any role while actors of colour often have to wait for an advertisement that specifies their race. Disgusting because it wasn’t even an attempt at an authentic Indian accent (and this is why Azaria was forced to apologise) it was the white man’s stereotype of one. When you consider his background I just can’t believe he thought it acceptable to accept the role.
Greenrubber · 20/07/2021 12:25

If they had an Italy day
Served pizza to everyone
Kids wore the colours of the flag
Hung flags
And played pavarotti

Would this be racist or stereotyping?
Because there's no difference

I think some people are easily offended and its why we are in such a weird no body knows how to respond to anything attitude!

Was the offended parent Caribbean? Or of Caribbean mix?
You said you felt uncomfortable why?

I apologise I've not read the entire thread but it would be interesting to see any actual Caribbean people who can tell us why it's racist and not presume we are bing racist because someone was offended

BrozTito · 20/07/2021 12:25

Awa- i dont recall the scottish being layed flat like cargo on disease ridden ships to go live there as slaves. Though scots did play a massive part in that industry to the carribean. Possibly theey may feel a bit annoyed about that.

BrozTito · 20/07/2021 12:26

Is italy made up of 15 countries?

Partin · 20/07/2021 12:31

How old are the kids here? Primary I’m guessing? How would you have liked the teacher to summarise 700 islands in a way that would still be engaging to kids and not just a list of facts? Maybe the teacher played calypso straight after reggae followed by other genres of Caribbean music? How many do they need to play before it stops being culturally insensitive? How many poets? How many different foods?
I think this is teachers trying to do something fun at the end of term here , would you rather they just stuck a PowerPoint or video up? I would hope they’d try and give some context as to WHY there is such diversity there but past that I think you are asking a lot.

And I know there’s not the same history here, but I can’t believe anyone would be offended by American kids having an English day where they learnt about the queen some iconic London buildings and drank tea. And I’m a northerner who hates the London centric attitude of this country. I’d expect more from highschool age but it’s just a bit of fun for kids.

choccohoopz · 20/07/2021 12:33

On the Simpsons thing, wasn't every single character stereotyped? Lazy, dumb, fat American male, subservient wife at home, smart girl child, naughty boy child, nasty, rich white man.. that argument seems redundant.

The only way this might possibly be justified by the school if they are doing a 'holiday to the Caribbean day'. The holiday resorts really do go with the stereotype but I'm guessing this isn't what they are doing.

Wouldn't be a bad way to end the year though! And they could have done a world trip thing instead which would have been fun, but also probably problematic.

EssentialHummus · 20/07/2021 12:36

green - If that was all Italy Day consisted of I'd be minded to have a word with the school - this in itself is stereotyping (not least because "Italian" isn't a race, afaik), but it reflects something about the culture/things we easily associate with Italy imo. You'd hope the school then put a bit of life into the stereotype by explaining anything from the Romans to the history of pizza to a few Italian words/phrases to family life in Italy or whatever.

worktrip · 20/07/2021 12:37

OP. Yes, 16 year olds can be forgiven lol

plodalong12 · 20/07/2021 12:39

@BrozTito

plod Im 31, i think it was on the national curriculum at the time maybe? think it was in year 6, I went to school in driffield
Ah ok, I’m 3 years older than you and not in Driffield but the national curriculum thing makes sense!
VladmirsPoutine · 20/07/2021 12:39

Wrt "Where are you from" I have found it's quite easy to discern someone's intentions. If you were 16 then there's really no need to castigate yourself for it years later. I have this question a lot - some people I just say "London" and leave it at that because I just don't want to talk about my heritage but with some others I'm happy to explain I'm from XYZ. It's really all circumstantial.

Greenrubber · 20/07/2021 12:40

@BrozTito

OK take American then lots of different cultures there

But if the teachers let the kids eat hotdogs wear cowboy hats and America flags would you see that as racist?

Alot of history is disgusting if we can't move forward how do we get out the other side?

Ozgirl75 · 20/07/2021 12:41

Agree @VladmirsPoutine - people ask me sometimes and if I feel like chatting I’ll say “Sydney but originally from X in the U.K.” but if I’m not I’ll just say “Sydney”.

Greenrubber · 20/07/2021 12:44

@EssentialHummus

I picked Italy because it isn't a race

So if you are white everything seems to be stereotyping but if you are dark your clearly being racist!

But it isn't necessarily is it being racist but everyone jumps straight on it

BrozTito · 20/07/2021 12:45

Again, the US isnt made up of 15 different countries, and theres more culture in a tramps hat

drpet49 · 20/07/2021 12:45

** If they had an Italy day
Served pizza to everyone
Kids wore the colours of the flag
Hung flags
And played pavarotti

Would this be racist or stereotyping?
Because there's no difference

I think some people are easily offended and its why we are in such a weird no body knows how to respond to anything attitude!**

^Completely agree.

Nengineer · 20/07/2021 12:46

If you genuinely believe that the intentions behind it were in any way to incite hatred or discrimination, by all means go to the police. Otherwise, if it's people dedicating their time to make a nice day for the kids, no point in whining about it. What do you want them to do? Focus on the lack of access to sanitation and education? The domestic violence? It's just a bloody place, some good some bad same as anywhere else.

BrozTito · 20/07/2021 12:47

Give me strength, tell me Green, how did black africans arrive in the west Indies?

LolaSmiles · 20/07/2021 12:48

The whatabotery on this thread is strong.

georgarina · 20/07/2021 12:50

Cultural appropriation is taking or using something from another culture without referencing where you took it from.

So no this doesn't meet the criteria for cultural appropriation.

Nengineer · 20/07/2021 12:50

The disckheaddery on this thread is strong. Imagine having to sit and look for offence in everything. Go out into the sunshine people. Get a job, read a book, make some friends.

EssentialHummus · 20/07/2021 12:53

I don't think that's right green - So if you are white everything seems to be stereotyping but if you are dark your clearly being racist!

To my mind the examples in the OP are stereotype rather than racism - or rather, you'd have to dig a bit to find racism, such as thinking about how Rastafarianism is typically perceived in the UK and why that particular aspect of culture has been much such a focal point.

It's no clear in your post whether "your" (you're) refers to the person making the judgment or the culture/country being judged, but if the former it's not a massive leap to think about the direction discrimination normally takes and that unconscious bias is a thing. As is overt racism, sadly.

Greenrubber · 20/07/2021 12:54

@BrozTito

It's irrelevant! The school were not leading them onto boats in chains and whipping them when they step out of line!

It's a day for the kids and this parent only seen a snippet of what was going on and is now freaking out

This isn't racism ignorance yes but not racism!

No one can say or do anything these days without being told they are racist! It's crazy