AIBU to ask if this is cultural appropriation or appreciation?

[HappyDays40]

Ever since the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement came into a more public sphere in the UK. Im looking at the world in a different way. Trying to consciously notice things that I may have said in the past which although I thought were showing an interest in other cultures are now termed as micro aggressions as they "other" people and reinforce that white as the default "normal".
An example of this is " where are you from?" Although this was not said with an aggressive tone I totally cringe when my friend looked at me pointedly and said Manchester. What I was asking about was her cultural heritage and I could have worded this better and won't do it again.
I also realise now what the terms white privilege and white savoiur mean. In the past I have spoken up for my friend if they have been abused and have taken charge when my friend has been perfectly able to speak for themselves. I am learning to stand with not stand on behalf of people unless they ask me to.
Its my responsibility to reflect and thinksnthings through not for people to educate me. Yes it makes me feel uncomfortable facing myself and questioning my past actions but I feels its the only way for change. So here is the AIBU bit: My son has a Carribean themed day at school today the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. The children have been learning Bob Marley songs and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures which I think I have felt okay with.
This morning when I took him in Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers and the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.

The children were having a great time. There are some children in the class who are black and one dad took one look at the whole thing dropped his child off and as we walked out he said he is going to complain to the school as this is cultural appropriation. I dont know him so I couldn't ask him about it and Im trying ro get my own thoughts in order.What do you guys think?

@HappyDays40

No I was merely saying that the teachers are white as I think this is relevant to the whole cultural appropriation/ appreciation discussion.

So they needed a Jamaican person present to play Reggae? Or just any token black person? Are you generally concerned about the lack of diversity in the staff team or just think we should only celebrate or learn about stuff we have a cultural link to?

@ChainJane

How is it racist? Surely reggae music is a huge musical part of the Caribbean (or at least I remember it being from the various trips I’ve taken.)

@JonahofArk

Sorry I know you didn't say it but it has been said previously on this thread that's why I mentioned it

I just can't see it myself

[quote Greenrubber]@JonahofArk

If course everyone can have their own opinion but telling people this is racist is not right either? Is it?

I'm asking why people find it racist and no one is saying why they feel that it is? Just delving back into the history but that isn't relevant to this thread the thread is about a kids class

So please tell me where the racism is because all I see is ignorance and stereotyping

I have had my hair braided (long time ago) but apparently that's cultural appropriation or some shit now a days actually no I didn't offend anyone back then and I wasn't doing it to be horrible or rude or any other reason other than it was fashionable at that time

I'm scottish so I think if an English person was to be offended by a stereotyping of a Scottish person and I wasn't I would think that it was rediculous

We don't know who is on this thread or what colour they are but unless they are from that culture why are we being offended by something we don't know would even offend them?[/quote]
I think the point about braiding is that hairstyles suitable for the hair of certain ethnicities was deemed unprofessional/unkempt when it was just their natural hair. Of course it was a bit galling that it came to be accepted as ‘trendy’ when white people did it….

Also to add - braiding itself is not an issue every culture with long haired women has braided their hair with beads

I think on this site short of someone calling someone else the n-word, or literally waving nazi flags outside their house a lot of posters wouldn't 'see' racism. And even then there'd be some 'devil advocates'. Maybe the nazi flag waver was having a bad day!?!

@CastawayQueen your comment about the hair braiding is spot on.

My dc go to an international school.
In primary school one of the most popular days was international day, many of the parents run stalls promoting their countries heritage, there are over 30 of them.

I ran the Scotland stand one year.
We had all the things that Scotland is famous for.
Yes on one hand they are stereotypical but on the other hand Highland Cows are actually Scottish, so is shortbread.
Dc and parents learned our national animal is the Unicorn.

My dc learned basic things about other countries and tried common foods from them.

Did they end up with a detailed knowledge of the history and current issues in these countries, no they didn't.

But they realized that different countries value different things, eat different food, have different flags, dance different ways and have different landscapes.

It is a lot of work for the parents, it takes weeks of planning but it one of the most popular days in school calendar.

Got distracted by squabbling dc.

So for this school the solution is for the school to request parental support for running these things.

My school has a multi cultural committee with parental involvement. Then you either get involved so you are happy with what is happening or you lose your right to complain about others who are leaning in.

@paddlingon

My dc go to an international school. In primary school one of the most popular days was international day, many of the parents run stalls promoting their countries heritage, there are over 30 of them.

I ran the Scotland stand one year.
We had all the things that Scotland is famous for.
Yes on one hand they are stereotypical but on the other hand Highland Cows are actually Scottish, so is shortbread.
Dc and parents learned our national animal is the Unicorn.

My dc learned basic things about other countries and tried common foods from them.

Did they end up with a detailed knowledge of the history and current issues in these countries, no they didn't.

But they realized that different countries value different things, eat different food, have different flags, dance different ways and have different landscapes.

It is a lot of work for the parents, it takes weeks of planning but it one of the most popular days in school calendar.

But that's the whole point-the event at your DC's school focuses on giving a snapshot of different countries' traditions-there's nothing wrong with that. The OP is talking about something else. The Caribbean is a region not a country. Do you think that England represents Europe for example?

I find it interesting that you are happy to make the distinction between Scotland and the rest of the UK but not between the numerous separate countries that make up the Caribbean.

In this particular instance, it could be argued that a focus on all the lovely aspects of the Caribbean (the food, music and etc), without also spending time teaching the children about windrush etc. is unacceptable because it completely ignores a significant aspect of the contemporary experience of Caribbean people in the UK. School is about education after all

so, in your opinion, what should have happened in those 10 minutes or so as the children arrived at school? No music? Children should have arrived at school on Caribbean Day and be greeted in exactly the same way as they are normally? What music would have been appropriate? Should it have been sombre to reflect the experiences of Afro-Caribbean people in the UK? Or should it have been....someone like Bob Marley, a globally reveered musician from Jamaica, a Caribbean country?

How do you know these children were not taught anything at all during the day about Windrush? Because the school played Bob Marley for 10 minutes in the morning and had white teachers greet the children?

@CastawayQueen

But why now is it deemed as inappropriate when it doesn't mean anything other than that person likes that style?

We take things from all over the world we share food, music, clothes etc why can't a white people have the braids in question but a black person can dye their hair blonde and make it straight instead of keeping their natural afro hair and no one cares?
Personally I think it's your hair do whatever you want with it I just don't see that as anything else

I know I'm coming off topic I don't mean to I just feel racism is being pushed and we should be trying to stop it (impossible I know) but it's like we are finding new things all the time to top stuff up and we are missing the bigger picture

@Getawaywithit

In this particular instance, it could be argued that a focus on all the lovely aspects of the Caribbean (the food, music and etc), without also spending time teaching the children about windrush etc. is unacceptable because it completely ignores a significant aspect of the contemporary experience of Caribbean people in the UK. School is about education after all

so, in your opinion, what should have happened in those 10 minutes or so as the children arrived at school? No music? Children should have arrived at school on Caribbean Day and be greeted in exactly the same way as they are normally? What music would have been appropriate? Should it have been sombre to reflect the experiences of Afro-Caribbean people in the UK? Or should it have been....someone like Bob Marley, a globally reveered musician from Jamaica, a Caribbean country?

How do you know these children were not taught anything at all during the day about Windrush? Because the school played Bob Marley for 10 minutes in the morning and had white teachers greet the children?

You're right, I don't know how the school ran the event, but I do know that if I was a parent there I would be asking some questions about it.

@JonahofArk I'm not saying that the school was totally right in its approach.
I think involving parents more is sensible and would avoid these difficulties.

I do think that "days" can be valuable however even if they are just stereotypical snapshots. Which is one of the things being discussed.

I am racking my brains to remember the educational aspects to the Norting Hill Festival. Do they also meet in silence and watch videos about colonialism? Thought not.

@Nengineer

I am racking my brains to remember the educational aspects to the Norting Hill Festival. Do they also meet in silence and watch videos about colonialism? Thought not.

Notting Hill Festival is not an educational event that is run by a school. Stop being ridiculous.

I think schools do all these sorts of days as it’s the only way to really show kids that there are other cultures and types of counties without actually taking them there.
I wouldn’t say it is racist but it certainly is stereotyping as there is such a short window in a day you can’t show all areas of a country so they tend to pick out the stereotype stuff.
Eg
Irish days or st Patrick’s always comprise of lots of Green, big hats, leprechaun images and Irish stew or soda breads
French day is always baguettes etc
Spanish day the usual dancing
Scottish Haggis and kilts
Danish pastries

There is so much more to these countries than this imagery so the Caribbean version is no different.
It’s a pity there just isn’t more time and knowledge to get more in-depth

Sometimes topic days can just be for the experience rather than deeply wduxational. I thought that was what wow days are for. Not that I am interested beyond the faff of finding an ancient egyption/greek/Roman costume.

[quote Greenrubber]@CastawayQueen

But why now is it deemed as inappropriate when it doesn't mean anything other than that person likes that style?

We take things from all over the world we share food, music, clothes etc why can't a white people have the braids in question but a black person can dye their hair blonde and make it straight instead of keeping their natural afro hair and no one cares?
Personally I think it's your hair do whatever you want with it I just don't see that as anything else

I know I'm coming off topic I don't mean to I just feel racism is being pushed and we should be trying to stop it (impossible I know) but it's like we are finding new things all the time to top stuff up and we are missing the bigger picture[/quote]
Because the issue with braids (and to be specific braids with hair extensions) are that black people are looked at negatively for having them - but for white people it’s trendy.
Same like how there was an uproar over someone wearing a qipao and calling it an ‘amazing dress’ without knowing what it was. Or art houses using ‘ethnic’ (for want of a better term) designs and not giving the creators credit.

If nobody batted an eyelid at black people with braids then there wouldn’t be an issue. Nobody judges white blondes for being blonde so that’s not an issue. Similarly if companies using designs credited their sources instead of stealing there’s no issue.

@blubberyboo

I think schools do all these sorts of days as it’s the only way to really show kids that there are other cultures and types of counties without actually taking them there. I wouldn’t say it is racist but it certainly is stereotyping as there is such a short window in a day you can’t show all areas of a country so they tend to pick out the stereotype stuff. Eg Irish days or st Patrick’s always comprise of lots of Green, big hats, leprechaun images and Irish stew or soda breads French day is always baguettes etc Spanish day the usual dancing Scottish Haggis and kilts Danish pastries

There is so much more to these countries than this imagery so the Caribbean version is no different.
It’s a pity there just isn’t more time and knowledge to get more in-depth

Yes and a lot of it isn't terribly nice. Do we focus on the average Jamaican man's approach to women?

@Nengineer well you have given a perfect example of racism with your last comment, so well done.

I'm nothing of an expert on Carribean culture, and I think a lot depends on the wider context of the day, but if does seem a as reductive to have the kids dressing up in Rastafarian colours. Rastafarian's account for about 1% of the population of Jamaica (let alone the rest of the Carribean). It does seem to smack of stereotyping, and not a very accurate stereotype at that.

Also to add - the most dramatic example of cultural appropriation - the theft and distortion of a holy symbol belonging to one of the world’s oldest cultures and religion now being a symbol of genocide, fear and hatred in the Western world. The swastika.

Tangential I agree and not relevant to the school but this is just to demonstrate why it’s important. For the OP I maintain that she can’t judge whether something is appropriation from 5 mins at drop off.

Also to add - I am Indian and while the swastika is sacred for us I will never be able to get married in the U.K. with all the proper ceremonial clothing. Thanks Nazis . Thanks for nothing.

It's not racism, it's a fact. There are unsavory aspects of any country, especially where education isn't widely available.