AIBU to ask if this is cultural appropriation or appreciation?

[HappyDays40]

Ever since the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement came into a more public sphere in the UK. Im looking at the world in a different way. Trying to consciously notice things that I may have said in the past which although I thought were showing an interest in other cultures are now termed as micro aggressions as they "other" people and reinforce that white as the default "normal".
An example of this is " where are you from?" Although this was not said with an aggressive tone I totally cringe when my friend looked at me pointedly and said Manchester. What I was asking about was her cultural heritage and I could have worded this better and won't do it again.
I also realise now what the terms white privilege and white savoiur mean. In the past I have spoken up for my friend if they have been abused and have taken charge when my friend has been perfectly able to speak for themselves. I am learning to stand with not stand on behalf of people unless they ask me to.
Its my responsibility to reflect and thinksnthings through not for people to educate me. Yes it makes me feel uncomfortable facing myself and questioning my past actions but I feels its the only way for change. So here is the AIBU bit: My son has a Carribean themed day at school today the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. The children have been learning Bob Marley songs and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures which I think I have felt okay with.
This morning when I took him in Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers and the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.

The children were having a great time. There are some children in the class who are black and one dad took one look at the whole thing dropped his child off and as we walked out he said he is going to complain to the school as this is cultural appropriation. I dont know him so I couldn't ask him about it and Im trying ro get my own thoughts in order.What do you guys think?

Im from Manchester and went to a really diverse school. We studied a lot of different histories, black history, colonialism, the Indian Partition. It was well thought out and well taught in a way that made you appreciate the negative impact that has Britain has had on the world. I came away thinking I was quite knowledgeable its just as an adult I have looked back and thought about things in a more personally critical way. I have never meant to hurt or offend, I have no feeling that I superior to any other human being but I think we need to ask ourselves why we feel uncomfortable and what are we going to do to change this?

The cast of the Simpsons is mostly white. Highly likely that at least some of the writers come from a Scottish background.

[quote MostlyMaple]@AwaAnBileYerHeid I guess because there is a lot of sensitivity surrounding black culture at the moment which perhaps could deem this irresponsible...[/quote]
I would consider all of it equally offensive whether it was a black, white or yellow culture

It’s the position of blacks and the history of slavery which is the sensitive issue. Not cultural appropriation in general which is faced by many other races and not a black special

It's not true that 'not a word' has been uttered about Groundskeeper Willie. Some Scottish people have criticised it, others say it's fine.

Cultural appropriation of any culture or race is not okay, but some examples will anger people more than others and receive more attention.

In the US for example, the celebration of St Patrick's Day is really pretty offensive in terms of stereotypes and appropriation, and people do complain about it. But it doesn't get as much attention because it's not part of a bigger phenomenon of anti-Irish racism or Irish people being targeted and killed by cops.

@BrozTito

When i was at school we did a whole term topic on saint lucia, dear god when i remember back to it i die. Making us sing in accents and (white) teacher dressed up like that kids club mad woman

Oh my god! If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Because in my class we did a long project on St Lucia which I hadn’t remembered at all until I read your post and now I’m wondering if we went to the same school!?

@Dontforgetyourbrolly yes it is for real. A poor attempt at best. There have been better incidences in the previous week but this was not great.

The school was having a Jamaican day at the very least. I'm from the Caribbean and none of those things represent my culture.

I saw a clip someone posted of a 'Caribbean' night they went to, and the staff were all wearing flowered shirts and leis! How ignorant in 2021 where the internet is accessible to most.

Also agree with the OP who said it seemed more like the school was reinforcing stereotypes. The red, green and yellow colours specifically is bizarre.

I don't think it's appropriation when used in an educational context like a theme at school, but the school doesn't seem to know what tf it's doing!

There was a great series of programs on the bbc for the anniversary of jamaican independence. You could dig them out for a different perspective for them. Then theres things like garrow's law and hornblower set during the haitian revolution, certain episodes of Who Do You Think You Are, thats how i got into carribean history as a kid.

The " What aboutism" is also an issue. Always somone asking what about blah blah blah. That is not the topic of the conversation.

Not just gelatin, quite a few have cochineal too .

Using flag colours is a great dress up for looking at certain countries, if the kids learn to identify a flag it's a fact learned. The school might have been better to use a different Caribbean country for each class or year group. Sometimes it's worth suggesting tweaks. Obviously they would be better from people in the local community. At primary school our Eid celebrations were led by a local mum and grandma, they pointed out way back in the 80s that they weren't looking for us to think ALL families celebrate in the same way. Generalising is where it all goes to shit.

If they wanted a Caribbean culture learning day , this could be done with getting local historians in to speak, musicians, reading Caribbean poetry and books and maybe doing some traditional crafts, cooking etc

I don't see the need to dress up and listen to Bob Marley ! It sounds like something out of the 1970s !
I'm Italian and I'm cringing ! It's like our school saying dress up as Super Mario and listen to Pavarotti !

@SingingSands

Well... playing Devil's Advocate here...

What if the music and flags were just for the "morning entrance"? What if - once the kids were sat down in classrooms - the theme was then widened to:

• How many countries make up the Carribean
• Learning about the islands
• Discovering facts about each individual island, how they are similar, how they are different
• Parents in classrooms talking about growing up with Carribean heritage, their traditions and beliefs?

Unless you know what is actually happening in the classrooms during the day then it's hard to say. Maybe wait until the end of the day and talk to the teacher?

This.

I am assuming the children are quite young too, and if so, things are going to be more simplified.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly yes that would make me think urrrrgh.
Its think its the systematic reduction or racial stereotypes as being representative of a culture.

the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in

This remark came across as incredibly racist. There are many individuals with black heritage who on first glance but would identify as mixed race. How do you know these teachers are 'white'?

There's lots of reasons why reggae music might have been blasting out. We're white but regularly play it out at meals times in our house. My mum loved reggae music and its one of the few happy memories I have from my childhood as I grew up in an abusive house. For example, could:

1.It remind one of the teachers of their family who have just passed away and they wanted to evoke happy memories
2.Do some of them just love reggae music and wanted to have a fun start to the day - its a tough time of year where many teachers are suffering from burnout

1. They're spending the day looking at stereotypes and was using this as a fun introduction

Ive recently watched a documentary on racism and the West Indies cricket team. There were quite a few ex-players who definitely fitted the stereotype you've seen this morning and I don't think their way of living should be eradicated from events looking at the Caribbean way of life as they're seen as too 'stereotypical'

It comes across as though you are trying to paint yourself as the anti-racist hero and the teachers are the villain even though you're still getting many things wrong yourself. Instead of being judgemental and getting yourself stressed over 'what ifs' I'd wait and make an informed decision when you have all of the facts.

In terms of cultural data in general IMO it’s better if a school has , say a week with various cultures incorporated and organised around various themes like food, family life etc and also the history of select countries.

Specific days to be celebrated only if the school has an overwhelming majority of that race (some schools are 50-60% Muslim for example).

Otherwise what’s the justification for celebrating Eid over Chinese New Year or Diwali or any other celebration that any other culture might have?

Children just need to learn that there are different people in the world not details of every single one of them

*cuktural dayv

*of that race/religion

Hmm, my DSes’ primary school used to do a country themed day every year. French day, dress as the Eiffel Tower, wear red, white and blue, dress as a garlic seller, eat baguettes, etc, Spanish day, dress in red and yellow, dress as a bull fighter, (my DS wore a white T shirt with a marker pen crap sketch of the Don Quixote drawing by Picasso) Indian day, saris and bindis, eating samosas and bhajis.

Basically they costumes and ‘celebrations’ were all really stereotyped. They were seen as a bit of a chore by the parents, like World Book Day, but generally enjoyed by the kids. A bit of a party day. They never did Germany day, though, but they did do a Scandinavia day. And Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are different countries.

So I’d see Caribbean Day in a similar light. Stereotyped, a bit cringe, probably annoying for anyone from that region, but a bit of fun for the kids.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid I agree with you completely, especially regarding Apu from The Simpsons. It is a cartoon and shouldn't be taken seriously. I was speaking with my husband about this actually, and pointed out the unfairness between some of the characters. The fact people were in uproar about Apu yet Groundskeeper Willie (who is taken the piss out of all the time and mocked relentlessly because of his nationality) seems to be OK? Double standards really.

You're basing all of this on the few minutes (or seconds?) of Reggae music you heard before the school day had started.

Our school did an "africa' day recently and many children with african heritage really loved it - parents got involved cooking food, showing traditional dress. Now - on one level I think its very naff - i mean 'africa' - its like having 'europe' day it's ludicrous. But the kids loved it, it made them think about the big wide world they live in and the parents of african heritage were involved and got to show elements of their own culture.

I think caribbean day sounds fine - kids to take things in on a simplistic level

We have a lot of Jamaican / heritage children in our school and they are often in school wearing Jamaican colours etc - talking about Jamaica and reggea and the food and the love of cricket there - they would love a day like this. My kids have one eastern european parent - they would love to talk about it on a 'day' if there was ever an east european day.

The fact people were in uproar about Apu yet Groundskeeper Willie (who is taken the piss out of all the time and mocked relentlessly because of his nationality) seems to be OK? Double standards really.

And virtually no Scottish people gave a fuck either, then some people seemed to get retroactively offended when they realised other people were

It's not racist! Come on its stereotyping with a bit of ignorance thrown in but it's not racist

Hmm to buck the trend here, I don't think that it is inappropriate to play reggae on a Caribbean theme day. It's the most famous musical genre to come out of the islands. Assuming that there are other aspects of the day, then I think this is perfectly appropriate.

Getting kids to dress up in Rastafarian colours is definitely off though.