AIBU to ask if this is cultural appropriation or appreciation?

[HappyDays40]

Ever since the death of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement came into a more public sphere in the UK. Im looking at the world in a different way. Trying to consciously notice things that I may have said in the past which although I thought were showing an interest in other cultures are now termed as micro aggressions as they "other" people and reinforce that white as the default "normal".
An example of this is " where are you from?" Although this was not said with an aggressive tone I totally cringe when my friend looked at me pointedly and said Manchester. What I was asking about was her cultural heritage and I could have worded this better and won't do it again.
I also realise now what the terms white privilege and white savoiur mean. In the past I have spoken up for my friend if they have been abused and have taken charge when my friend has been perfectly able to speak for themselves. I am learning to stand with not stand on behalf of people unless they ask me to.
Its my responsibility to reflect and thinksnthings through not for people to educate me. Yes it makes me feel uncomfortable facing myself and questioning my past actions but I feels its the only way for change. So here is the AIBU bit: My son has a Carribean themed day at school today the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. The children have been learning Bob Marley songs and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures which I think I have felt okay with.
This morning when I took him in Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers and the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.

The children were having a great time. There are some children in the class who are black and one dad took one look at the whole thing dropped his child off and as we walked out he said he is going to complain to the school as this is cultural appropriation. I dont know him so I couldn't ask him about it and Im trying ro get my own thoughts in order.What do you guys think?

Using Bob Marley is strange. He wasn't a typical Jamaican. He was a relative of my husband who is white.

@blacksax

They've been studying the Caribbean as a topic in primary school for ages, my dd did it about 15 years ago. They looked at tourism (benefits and disadvantages), culture, food, all sorts. What's wrong with listening to some music typical of the region?

If they were studying Russian culture it wouldn't be cultural appropriation if they listened to Russian folk dance tunes, or classical ballet music, would it?

Seems to me that white people are considered to be in the wrong whatever they do.

The Caribbean is a region made up of many different nations each with their own history, culture and traditions. Comparing an entire region to one country is disingenuous.

It would be like a school in say Japan having a 'Europe' day and only focusing on England. It's lazy.

If you want to rally learn about and understand a country then learn the language, or go and live there for a couple of months, or read a 1000 page book (or if in school, spend a whole term studying the history, geography etc). Anything else, including primary school Country X Days, is just a bit of fun. As long as there aren’t any offensive/demeaning stereotypes it’s all a mountain out of a mole hill.

If they were studying Russian culture it wouldn't be cultural appropriation if they listened to Russian folk dance tunes, or classical ballet music, would it?

I agree it’s not appropriation, but it’s lazy and reductive.

Why not Jamaican or Trinidadian or Guyanese folk tales, then? Or music other than reggae - Caribbean musical culture is SO rich? Or a focus on great figures from Caribbean nations other than Bob Marley? Because it’s easier to revert to lazy stereotypes, and that is especially true where black cultures are the topic.

I’m Scottish. And we have worn kilts. We do eat haggis- even if only on Burns night. And we do actually have bagpipes and some people do actually play them. I wore kilts when I was little. I think they’re incredibly cute. I actually think that they should bring kilts into schools here as uniform. That way everyone, boys girls and whatever’s’ are all wearing the same thing. I happen to think that kilts can be incredibly smart and handsome looking. I wouldn’t be offended by these stereotypes. I just don’t know what their is in that to be offended by?????

@Genderwitched

We'll it's a day to celebrate aspects of popular Carribbean culture, the school has not suddenly become Carribbean. So of course it's appreciation not appropriation.

That's not what appropriation means. Appropriation is lazy picking of other cultures' traditions and passing them off as one's own or presenting them out of context. What the school is doing may be well meaning but it's clumsy and inappropriate.

So they've involved appropriate adults in the cooking and cultural aspects and made it about the whole Carribbean and actually learning about the different aspects?

But today they chose to play music from one part of the culture and so suddenly the whole thing is racist and inappropriate?

And you also 5hinl it was wrong they were greeted by white teachers? How many teachers with Caribbean culture do they have? Who should have met them?

[quote Greenrubber]@BrozTito

No I'm not! There are mixed race posters on this thread saying they don't find it offensive!
And you're saying it's offensive!

Your bringing racism into the pot and stirring it[/quote]
I'd just like to point out that just because one person of a particular ethnicity doesn't find something offensive does not mean that somebody else of that same ethnicity is not allowed to be offended by it.

Ethnic minorities are allowed to have differences of opinion just like any other group of people, so saying that other mixed race posters have said something is not racist and therefore it cannot be racist is not an acceptable argument.

@PingedAgain
Because it’s easier to revert to lazy stereotypes, and that is especially true where black cultures are the topic.
Not really. People in the UK generally have a reasonable knowledge of Europe and N.America due to reasons of culture, history, geographical proximity. For the same reason, people in China tend to have better cultural and historical knowledge of Japan and S.Korea than they do Australia. Nothing to do with race.

@toconclude
presenting them out of context.
That isn’t appropriation, it’s mild ignorance. It would only be appropriation if they were being purposeful presented out of context for profit.

@Iwantcauliflowercheese

Using Bob Marley is strange. He wasn't a typical Jamaican. He was a relative of my husband who is white.

And?

Using Bob Marley is strange. He wasn't a typical Jamaican. He was a relative of my husband who is white.

Can I ask what on earth does this even mean?

the children have gone in in themed clothes yellows, reds and greens. i agree its a random choice to pick these colours over others. O suspect they though"Caribbean themed clothes" would lead to parents complaining about having to buy specific stuff

The children have been learning Bob Marley songs... did some poetry and language with one of the parents.... and generally all about different Carribean foods and cultures... a guy who lives locally who is from St. Kitts who does catering and he did some cooking wih them
unless you're saying that alll the language and poetry was also only from Jamaican culture, then it sounds like they're selected different aspects from different regions

Reggae msuci was blasting forth from the speakers they dont really have tome to play a song from every nation though so they've picked one. Which genre of music would you be comfortable with?

the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.
Who normally greets them? How many teachers of Caribbean heritage do they employ? Who should have met them?

However the Dad has every right to complain and that's for school to sort

I get asked where I'm from quite a lot, but I'm a White English Muslim who wears hijab. Obviously hijab = foreign in some people's eyes.

the teachers who are white were outside welcoming the children in.
Who normally greets them? How many teachers of Caribbean heritage do they employ? Who should have met them?

I was wondering about this. Should it have bene only black teachers? Black teacher from the Caribbean area? If they have enough teachers of that background to greet all the children....it couldn't possibly be CA or even offensive.

Did op expect them to employ people from the right culture and right skin colour to stand at the doors?

No I was merely saying that the teachers are white as I think this is relevant to the whole cultural appropriation/ appreciation discussion.

We can’t possibly know because we don’t know what was taught.

Rastafarianism should be covered because it is a religion that comes from Jamaica, and not that many countries globally have created new religions, so it is of high cultural significance.

@HappyDays40

No I was merely saying that the teachers are white as I think this is relevant to the whole cultural appropriation/ appreciation discussion.

You said the teacher who are white were greeting them.

Teachers greet kids on a morning.

Regardless of their skin colour. Did you not expect then to greet the children that day because they are white?

I really don't see the relevance of pointing out the skin colour if who was there, greeting the kids

Do you just mean 'the teachers are white'. I, mean doesn't mean they can't be from Carribean as well. But isn't that why they got people from the cultures they are exploring in, to support? Because they are not from those cultures?

@JonahofArk

If course everyone can have their own opinion but telling people this is racist is not right either? Is it?

I'm asking why people find it racist and no one is saying why they feel that it is? Just delving back into the history but that isn't relevant to this thread the thread is about a kids class

So please tell me where the racism is because all I see is ignorance and stereotyping

I have had my hair braided (long time ago) but apparently that's cultural appropriation or some shit now a days actually no I didn't offend anyone back then and I wasn't doing it to be horrible or rude or any other reason other than it was fashionable at that time

I'm scottish so I think if an English person was to be offended by a stereotyping of a Scottish person and I wasn't I would think that it was rediculous

We don't know who is on this thread or what colour they are but unless they are from that culture why are we being offended by something we don't know would even offend them?

I will just be a brief day of some things related to the Caribbean islands culture, as in the music and colourful clothes,and types of food etc. There will be no time for anything in depth to learn about. All other things relating to the Caribbean countries,and any other countries, have to be taught in general Geography and global lessons.

@orinocosfavoritecake

Yeah - first step of planning that sort of day should have been asking parents with Carribbean planning for advice.

But how do you do this? If you say you want to talk to them about the Caribbean they might say ‘I’m from Manchester’. It’s turned into a minefield, I’m so scared of saying the wrong thing I don’t say anything, but then that’s excluding people.

[quote Greenrubber]@JonahofArk

If course everyone can have their own opinion but telling people this is racist is not right either? Is it?

I'm asking why people find it racist and no one is saying why they feel that it is? Just delving back into the history but that isn't relevant to this thread the thread is about a kids class

So please tell me where the racism is because all I see is ignorance and stereotyping

I have had my hair braided (long time ago) but apparently that's cultural appropriation or some shit now a days actually no I didn't offend anyone back then and I wasn't doing it to be horrible or rude or any other reason other than it was fashionable at that time

I'm scottish so I think if an English person was to be offended by a stereotyping of a Scottish person and I wasn't I would think that it was rediculous

We don't know who is on this thread or what colour they are but unless they are from that culture why are we being offended by something we don't know would even offend them?[/quote]
Why wouldn't it be right to say that this is racist if that was the case?

I disagree with you that the history should not be the focus because it's a kids' class-that is exactly why it should be a focus-it's education.

In terms of your hair braids-how do you know that they didn't offend anybody? Maybe they did but they just didn't tell you?

It's perfectly acceptable for you to think something is ridiculous, just like it's perfectly acceptable for somebody else to be deeply offended by the same situation.

For what it's worth, the reason that cultural appropriation (which I actually don't think is what happened here) is such a hot button issue at the moment is because it is directly linked to racism. Basically it smacks of people taking from and appropriating aspects of other peoples' cultures that they deem palatable and acceptable, without addressing the rampant racism (both historical and contemporary) that people from those cultures continue to face. That's my understanding of it anyway.

In this particular instance, it could be argued that a focus on all the lovely aspects of the Caribbean (the food, music and etc), without also spending time teaching the children about windrush etc. is unacceptable because it completely ignores a significant aspect of the contemporary experience of Caribbean people in the UK. School is about education after all.

@JonahofArk

But where is the racism in this?

Why is it being brought up?

[quote Greenrubber]@JonahofArk

But where is the racism in this?

Why is it being brought up?[/quote]
I didn't say it was racist-but again, that's only my opinion. However, I do think it's lazy and cliched.

I think the most important thing is that people are having these sort of discussions more regularly, and are talking things through as this thread demonstrates. I have these sort of discussions on a regular basis IRL, and I have noticed that when I am speaking to a white person about this sort of thing, there does seem to be a tendency for them to get very defensive. It really isn't necessary. These discussions are not personal attacks. It's about working together to create a society that can work for all-it's that simple.