Can you be a good person if you pay for sex? [Content warning: descriptions of sexual abuse]

[Lave]

Do you think there's a grey area or are all men who pay for sex abusive?

@LittleGwyneth

It's relatively common for some people who have disabilities which have precluded them from finding a sexual partner the traditional way, to pay a sex worker. I can't imagine any of us would judge them for that.

I think you can absolutely be a good person and pay for sex, but I think it would be contingent on being respectful and kind to the person you're paying, trying to be sure you weren't visiting someone who had been trafficked, and generally trying to be the most ethical consumer of sex as a product possible. I've got friends who have worked in the sex industry and they feel well disposed towards most of their clients, and only resentful towards the ones who treated them poorly.

I would 100% judge them, yes.

Nobody is entitled to sex.

Imagine a world where we protected and valued young women. Where there weren't financial hardships, trafficking etc.

Who do you think should be forced to service these poor men?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

As I have said previously, some men do go out of their way to ensure the woman they are paying is doing it voluntarily and is not trafficked, abused or coerced. It is possible to pay for sex ethically, but those men who do are in the minority, not the majority.

And what about me? I am paid for sex and would rather be paid for sex instead of dating/giving it away for free. Does this make me a bad person? Am I a no longer a decent person because I prefer transactional sex?

[quote CoraPearl]@youvegottenminuteslynn

As I have said previously, some men do go out of their way to ensure the woman they are paying is doing it voluntarily and is not trafficked, abused or coerced. It is possible to pay for sex ethically, but those men who do are in the minority, not the majority.

And what about me? I am paid for sex and would rather be paid for sex instead of dating/giving it away for free. Does this make me a bad person? Am I a no longer a decent person because I prefer transactional sex?[/quote]
I don't believe a decent man would run the risk, even if they believe it to be small based on whatever research they can do - not sure what that research would be reliably. I'm not saying there aren't scenarios where a prostitute / escort isn't totally independent and happy. I'm saying that I don't think a decent man would run the risk of being complicit in a woman being abused, coerced or trafficked as he could never, ever know 100%.

I agree @youvegottenminuteslynn that it wouldn't even occur to a decent man to seek out a prostitute/escort in the first place

Even if due diligence is done to assure the woman isn't trafficked/ coerced/ forced, there is no way of knowing if she is turning to sex work unwillingly.

There will always be the odd person for whom it's an enjoyable way to earn money but these make up such a teeny portion of sex workers.

Even self proclaimed happy hookers usually reveal a very different tale when they leave the game

There are some sex workers who are willingly in the trade, able to shut themselves off emotionally, and enter and leave of their own choice. These, I fear, are in the minority.

Equally there are some men who are sad, lonely and desperate. Those qualities don’t make them bad people of themselves. And for them, like the one I mentioned above, a normal relationship just isn’t going to happen. Could any of you imagine being in a relationship with a man who was completely sexually inadequate? And, if so, would it be a platonic one? For such men sadly paying for sex is the only way they can find any intimacy.

None of which is to detract from the despicable abuse many female escorts receive, the exploitation, human trafficking and all the other appalling things that happen.

These excuses of loneliness, being ugly, or considered socially unfuckable need to stop!

No one is entitled to sex, it’s not a charity for pity fucks or some kind of therapy service or product you get ownership in exchange for cash.

What about the lonely man to poor? Is he entitled to pity sex at discounted rate. Ffs!

It’s paid rape and abuse

These are real women

I was about to post the same, @Wallpapering!
Being sad, lonely, shy or having a disability does not excuse the exploitation of women.

There was a good post above about it "women are not service animals"

Not to direct this at the poster as how they feel is up to them obv.

In general though their feelings

Rather be paid for sex than giving to away for free

I think encapsulate the male approach.

Women have a product called sex. Men want it. Women give or withhold for various reasons related to controlling men, that sort of thing.

Sexual desire, pleasure on the woman's side, for those men, does not come into it.

Women have a product called sex. Men want it. Women give or withhold for various reasons related to controlling men, that sort of thing.

The idea that men have sex for pleasure and women have sex for personal gain is both misogynistic and outdated. Women are not the gatekeepers of sex and this gatekeeper model props up societal attitudes around rape, sexual violence, and consent - the idea that it wouldn't have happened if the woman had been a better gatekeeper by not wearing a short skirt, not drinking, not walking alone, etc.

Yes if you're in a bad way, having unfulfilling sex with people who dont respect you then I can see that being paid for it rather than giving it for free is preferable to some people.

But that's a sad situation in itself.

I don’t understand the giving away for free concept as sex is supposed to mutual enjoyable experience plus free suggests don’t value my body or self regardless of what state it in.

Something women who are married or in relationship are told it’s not obligation to shut up and put up.

Even when I had fuckbuddy for a year (he got to clingy in end) I wasn’t giving it away free as purpose was to have mutually consented enjoyable experience.

I could of made lot of money had he had to pay me for the sex but then mutual consent isn’t anymore and what would of happened at times when for various reason I stopped the sex mid way, there was also things didn’t want to do would I have been obligated to for fill his needs still.

This term free sex doesn’t sit well with me, as usually directed at women. When has man last been said he gives away free sex

@BlatantlyNameChanged

Women have a product called sex. Men want it. Women give or withhold for various reasons related to controlling men, that sort of thing.

The idea that men have sex for pleasure and women have sex for personal gain is both misogynistic and outdated. Women are not the gatekeepers of sex and this gatekeeper model props up societal attitudes around rape, sexual violence, and consent - the idea that it wouldn't have happened if the woman had been a better gatekeeper by not wearing a short skirt, not drinking, not walking alone, etc.

Yes, this essentially male view of women and sex, which runs throughout society, causes massive harm to women and girls all over the world.

It really does.

@Wallpapering

I don’t understand the giving away for free concept as sex is supposed to mutual enjoyable experience plus free suggests don’t value my body or self regardless of what state it in.

Something women who are married or in relationship are told it’s not obligation to shut up and put up.

Even when I had fuckbuddy for a year (he got to clingy in end) I wasn’t giving it away free as purpose was to have mutually consented enjoyable experience.

I could of made lot of money had he had to pay me for the sex but then mutual consent isn’t anymore and what would of happened at times when for various reason I stopped the sex mid way, there was also things didn’t want to do would I have been obligated to for fill his needs still.

This term free sex doesn’t sit well with me, as usually directed at women. When has man last been said he gives away free sex

Lots and lots of women for one reason or another end up feeling like sex isn't mutually enjoyable.

Self esteem issues, abuse, mental health problems, coercion.

When you've been with enough men who've made you feel utterly shite, it can feel that well, if you're giving them all that pleasure and getting nothing in return then you may as well at least make some money out of it.

You're fortunate if sex for you has always been mutually enjoyable

Yes @Maireas the comments regarding disability have without doubt been 100 offensive as if been disabled means you some unfuckable dregs of society.

What should happen is that the women who feel like that up their standards and set boundaries and learn to enjoy respectful sexual relationships but it's not that easy. Extremely sad but true.

And this is another reason why I judge men who pay for sex.

Indeed. So offensive. Some people need to watch the Last Leg. Or the Paralympics. Or just open their eyes to the amazing, gorgeous, funny, clever people who happen to have a disability.

My last point was in agreement with@Wallpapering

Yet again I’m amazed by the knots people will tie themselves into, thinking up increasingly bizarre and unlikely scenarios that would mean paying for sex was the mark of a good person.

Taking the time to find a prostitute who met all the requirements that would classify her as a free agent happy hooker? Respectfully agreeing to her conditions about what she will and won’t do, even in the heat of the moment? All this in a person whose personal qualities aren’t so repellent that no woman would want to have sex with him without being paid? Come on. This is not the reality, nobody believes this for a second. Even in Pretty Woman, this was one man against a backdrop of hundreds of abusive, disgusting monsters.

It’s hasn’t @rishisboater as at age of 11 sex is neither enjoyable nor had my consent, same when I was 13 or when in my 20’s.

However it was seen as free sex to those men

That's exactly the kind of scenario I mean... when sex has been something that's been taken from you for a long time, it can feel like it's preferable to take payment

I don’t judge the women @rishisboater who do, my judgement is all directed at the men.

100% agree