Elderly neighbour becoming too dependent on us!

[JurassicSal]

We moved into our house about three years ago, next door to an elderly single lady (she has just turned 80years old). When we first met her she was very active, going out and doing things with her friends from the church, holidays away, visits to her family etc, but more recently she seems to be coming more and more dependent on myself and my husband. There are so many things it’s hard to list them all, but we’ve done decorating, house cleaning, gardening, multiple trips to the GP and hospital, shopping and numerous DIY jobs - even simple things like changing the batteries in the TV remote! She’s always wanting things changed in her house and it seems like my husband is forever organising quotes and visits from tradesmen to price the work. This all takes a lot of his time, as she wants him to make all the phone calls and organise visits / appointments.

She recently discovered online shopping, but that’s not without its problems as she constantly changes her mind about goods and wants to return them which involves us having to sort out the paperwork and the packaging / courier collection as she can’t work out how to do it herself. We are both very kind and good natured people but my husband is a lot older than me and retired several years ago and wants to enjoy his retirement - he’s also getting very tired with all this (he does all the driving around as I don’t drive). I also work four days a week and have my own house and garden to look after, so I’m getting very tired with all this. Hardly a day goes by without another request for help for something or other. Our neighbour doesn’t have any disability (other than being little bit unsteady when she walks) and she sees and hears perfectly well.She has no children or any family living nearby (they live several hours away) so I think she is becoming dependent on us for all her help. She keeps telling us she’s constantly singing praises to her family about her “wonderful neighbours” and I feel they are happy for things to stay that way as it absolves them from any responsibility!

I think we have been very generous to her in the past and showered her with kindness but feel now that we are paying the price and as I said feel she is now become almost totally dependent on us for all her day-to-day needs.

Should we just say “no” more often, and if so how to do so without causing offence?. She frequently says “I don’t know what I would do without you two” and “I don’t have anyone else to ask” Is this also a sign of manipulative behaviour? Sometimes we feel like we should move house as it’s the only way to get our lives back…..

Any comments or suggestions gratefully accepted!

I’m a parish minister and this is the kind of pastoral situation I can and do get involved with.

I’d recommend a chat with your neighbour’s minister/vicar/priest. The pandemic has disrupted relationships and social patterns for us all, and many elderly people seemed to have been disproportionately aged by the experience, and are feeling a bit lost.

She might know exactly what she is doing.

A lot of 80yos are very active. As an example my in laws are in their mid 80s. Yes they have health issues (mostly of the sort they have to live with, with medication) and are still very active. In fact they are the ones running round helping neighbours out!!

Jesus you sound like a pushover.
Just tell her sorry you don't have time to help her anymore if she needs a carer she will have to contact social services etc.

Thank you everyone for your lovely replies and suggestions. Unfortunately I’m just too busy at the moment to reply individually (can’t think why 🤣), but I will sit down later with my hubby and take some of your ideas on board and come up with a plan. I’m new on here, but totally overwhelmed with the support I’ve had! Thank you all again 🥰 💗

It sounds to me like she is being manipulative. She's of sound mind and frankly is just taking advantage. You need to say no. You should also - when her family visit - make a point of talking to them about it, and getting them to talk to her directly and also help out more.

You sounds like very kind people, too kind I'm sure to take any notice of people telling you not to answer the door etc. My DM had neighbours like this, and I think it enabled her to feel she wasn't dependent on her children - which wasn't really fair or actually what we wanted, and required me having a chat with her neighbours to change things. So I'd suggest the reverse, you talking to her children. But I wouldn't do it without talking to your neighbour first. I'd tell her that as your DH is getting older he's feeling the strain of all he's doing for her, lay it on a bit thick. Then talk to her children and give them the responsibility of helping her maintain her independence by helping her organise things better, using her - as you say - decent income.

As far as the online shopping is concerned, she just needs to exclude substitutes and she won't need to return things. On Sainsburys you just needed to tick a box saying no substitutes, I assume it's similar for other supermarkets. If she is ordering other things and wanting to do returns, maybe she needs to be less fussy! I hardly ever do a return for something I've bought online.

It is difficult, sometimes you really do need help from someone younger. As an example, my mum has a really awkwardly placed electricity meter and because of a back problem she can't get down to read it. I don't have any difficulty with it at all, but I am not there (live 3 hours drive away). So she does ask a neighbour (and it's Octopus so they ask every month for a reading and at the moment she can't have a smart meter). However, she drives, does her own shopping in person and online, and pays someone to mow the lawn and to sort out her computer if it goes wrong.

I think you need to take a step back. Either way no, or tell her DH/yourself are too busy this week, or you're worried about DH being tired all the time, so he's taking on less. Only do things that are essential. Unless she's disabled which makes transport harder, she could get a taxi.

It's so hard though. We can see our elderly neighbour deteriorating, but my Mum is 80 and is going to need lots more help soon (she has a massive garden on top). We know we've only got so much to give. Luckily neighbours have got together, one cuts his grass, one digs borders/cuts back, we cut back the hedge back and front. A local couple deliver food. He's had a couple of falls this year, so I've gone around each time just to check on him.

I also agree with Age UK. They have a lot of services such as helping with gardening, shopping etc in my area

She's got into asking you to do stuff, and is finding things for you to do, because she needs the social interaction and doesn't believe you'd bother with her without an actual thing to do. At any rate, I reckon that's how it started.

Maybe you can introduce a bit of a pull-back by chatting with her about how your dh is getting older, more tired, you're a little worried that he's taking on too much and that you'd like him to be able to pursue his own interests while he can now he's retired, then go onto something about a local service for the elderly which provide cheap taxis or something. Just a gentle nudge.

You shouldn't need to lay down the law, if you approach it like this. It will take longer to disentangle yourselves from a lot of the little chores that she's coming up with, but at the same time you're pulling back from doing this stuff you could perhaps increase the time you just spend having tea and a chat, so that she will still feel that she has that social outlet and you are not just going to dump her altogether. Invite her over for coffee now and again, have a sit in the garden with her from time to time. You can show her that she can still be assured of your company, concern and friendship, while still actually doing fewer of her chores.

You are lovely people.

Rather than being manipulative the elderly often just don't realise how much they are asking. I know our parents tend to see each thing as a standalone problem and don't connect it with everything else. If you remind them it's a genuine surprise and only 1 has dementia. Worlds tend close in as you get older, especially since Covid, and they just look at each issue and go straight to the easiest solution. You need to stop being the easy solution for everything. Devide what works for you and stick to it like glue.

There is a lady on our road like this. We were shopping for her in lockdown and very happy to do so (even the time when she rang when it was pouring with rain, I had three children to homeschool and she said 'I just have a fancy for some prawns'! )
However it got to the point where it was taking over and I got a bit cross as she had a granddaughter in the next village. So we kindly but firmly said we were there for emergencies but that we were quite busy suddenly with the children back to activities so weren't around so much. I noticed that other neighbours took over and they have also now had to distance themselves. She is now getting over to the shop herself and much perkier for it.
Sometimes you have to be a bit firm to be kind - much better in the long run as they benefit too.

Your neighbour is becoming frailer and less confident. Unfortunately the more she relies on you the less capable she will be though this will happen any way.

Definitely Age UK and a gentle talk with your neighbour, emphasizing you'll still pop round for cuppa. Do you have her children's contact numbers? the church?

If she has the money for gardener and cleaner and taxi, then that she should do. Unfortunately she may be also thinking of saving money she wants to leave to her children.

@Jux

She's got into asking you to do stuff, and is finding things for you to do, because she needs the social interaction and doesn't believe you'd bother with her without an actual thing to do. At any rate, I reckon that's how it started.

Maybe you can introduce a bit of a pull-back by chatting with her about how your dh is getting older, more tired, you're a little worried that he's taking on too much and that you'd like him to be able to pursue his own interests while he can now he's retired, then go onto something about a local service for the elderly which provide cheap taxis or something. Just a gentle nudge.

You shouldn't need to lay down the law, if you approach it like this. It will take longer to disentangle yourselves from a lot of the little chores that she's coming up with, but at the same time you're pulling back from doing this stuff you could perhaps increase the time you just spend having tea and a chat, so that she will still feel that she has that social outlet and you are not just going to dump her altogether. Invite her over for coffee now and again, have a sit in the garden with her from time to time. You can show her that she can still be assured of your company, concern and friendship, while still actually doing fewer of her chores.

You are lovely people.

I agree with this. Especially She's got into asking you to do stuff, and is finding things for you to do, because she needs the social interaction and doesn't believe you'd bother with her without an actual thing to do. At any rate, I reckon that's how it started Its probably unconscious that she is doing it, but I reckon this is very likely her motivation.

I think @Jux gives a good and humane solution for everyone.

I would chat to her and lay it on a bit thick about how worried you are about your husband's health, and how tired he gets. Research local organisations who can offer help to the elderly, including her church. Then give her the list. And when she asks for help, don't be available that day, ask her to remind you if you haven't got back to her within a couple of days.

Offer to help her find a cleaner, handyman and gardener. than when she asks offer to call in said cleaner, handyman, gardener.

Speak with the r family. If she is 80 you should have contact details fro them anyway 'in case anything happens' - so an opportunity to flag up a reduction in dependency. They may not know....

I'd be honest with her and say your husband is getting older and finding it a bit much.
Find a local handyman, gardener and cleaner with her and make sure she has their numbers. If she calls and asks for help with those things you can call the right person for her.

I'd probably go round and have a chat with her and just say that it's too much for you and your DH. Then make a plan about what you can and can't do with suggestions for things you can't do - such as getting in a gardener, cleaner, using taxis more often, getting family members to deal with tradespeople - even though they live far away they can still contact people here for her. Hell, I live in another country and I've skype called people in the UK on behalf of relatives still living there who were unable to call for themselves.

I would suggest preparing a list of stock phrases to use when she asks you to do something so you’re ready with words you’re comfortable with.

For example, “sorry that’s not convenient so you’ll need to ask your family to help you”. “I don’t think that’s a good idea, it would be better if you asked your family to do that for you”. “We did that for you understanding it was a one-off issue, you’ll need to sort out a gardener/tradesperson to do anything else as we can’t fit it in/do it properly”. In fact the “we’re not the best/right people to do that” answer is a good one to use as she does need proper help, not just neighbours going above and beyond. What if your DH fixes something but it goes wrong and injures her/causes damage? Much better to have professionals in.

Why are you doing gardening, decorating and cleaning for her?? She says she has a generous private pension from her late husband, she could easily pay for these services, like other people do.
She's taking advantage. She may be lonely, you can still support her by having a cup of tea and a chat etc.
Just be honest, it's too much now for your husband. Follow up with phone numbers for a local cleaner, gardener and home help if she persists.

I also don’t think she’s being manipulative. But you need to set clear boundaries and give her numbers for Age UK etc who can help her out. Tell her to ring her family.
I’d give her a specific list of what you can do and say no to everything else. Very hard but you have to

You sounds lovely OP.

It’s a shame it has escalated, as I get the impression you would have been happy to keep doing the odd small thing for the foreseeable future, but I agree you must set down boundaries now.

If it was me, I would use Covid and restrictions lifting as the key driver. Go around for a coffee, and say “now it’s been wonderful we’ve been able to step in and help whilst Covid has meant families/tradesmen can’t but now it’s finishing up I know you’ll be keen to get back your independence and I’m sure they can’t wait to step back up and help you! Why don’t you give me your daughter/son’s number, if I ever need to call her in an emergency and menawhile, I’ll pop over once a week for a coffee.”

And then be brisk and refuse to hear a different side.

If you are feeling very kind, you could give her a list of taxi numbers, gardeners etc and say “I’ve put this together for you for a start. I hope it helps!”

If she says “oh can you just do this return for me?” “Now Nora, I think you can do that one yourself, and call a taxi from the list. Another biscuit?”

If she has a medical Appt and asks if DH can drive “Oh Nora, chance would be a fine thing! He’s got his nose stuck in a books no I know he won’t emerge until the weekend. What about that taxi list I gave you?”

If she wants to redecorate “Hmmm, Nora, what a lovely bonding thing for you and your son/daughter to do now that Covid is over! No, no, I won’t interfere, I think it would bring you both a lot of pleasure to look at styles and quotes and handymen etc. Let’s get out your phone and text your son/daughter right now and say you’re keen to discuss this with them. When I’m around next weekend I’ll bring your favourite lemon cake and you can tell me all about the progress!”

Bright, breezy, busy and deflect!

Talk to the priest at her local church. They will provide support right up to and including social groups and tech lessons.

Also, if she says “I don’t have anyone else to ask”, say “I know Covid has made us all feel like our world is smaller, but it really isn’t” and point out some of the organizations people have listed above. If she persists, then perhaps more gently “Nora, you’ve said that a few times, is it time to let your family know you aren’t able to cope on your own?”

Gently and kindly refuse to be part of her solution.

As you are a kind person, you will feel like you aren’t being kind. You are. Imagine how mortified you would feel if your own parents’ neighbours were feeling the same as you and you thought they just loved helping you parent out.

If she is sound of mind, then plan with her for a 'handover meeting'.

Hi Joan lovely to see you! DH and I would like to pop over at the weekend and have a chat with you about sorting out all of your jobs etc. It's getting a bit much for us to be so hands-on (you don't need to justify this or make up anything) so we'd like to help you sort a bit more of this out for yourself.

We'll help you make a list of taxis etc,. find some numbers for gardeners, and run through your online shopping with you one last time.

We're always happy to help in an emergency and of course we'd love to have a cuppa with you now and again.

Now - when's a good time for us to call in at the weekend?

Then do just that.

Basically don't spring it on her and don't make anything up. You don't want to be as involved, that's reason enough. Just help her to make the next step.