To think these groups of men in the park are a bit weird

[SinoAZ]

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

@Cailleach1

It appears to me that some posters are trying to smear everyone with a political agenda, despite they themselves trying to shoehorn some agenda which is irrelevant to the situation. Hectoring.

Should the op and her child have to put up with random groups of men (who are strangers) harrying them? Unwanted and uninvited harrying? I think not. Some posters may think yes. Maybe even that they should apologise for existing and taking up space.

No she shouldn't. But it would also feel pretty ridiculous for a poster to come on and say that she's living the expat life in Saudi and by the way isn't it a bit weird that she can't go running wearing gym shorts.

You can't go to a conservative Muslim country and think it is in any way weird that the role and expectations of women are different. Your freedom to disagree with those roles, but it's a bit pointless to post about it on a UK site.

I lived in SE Asia when my DS was small (and blonde). He used to just shout “Don't touch me!” And “No photos!” If he felt his space was being invaded. Older women used to regularly shout at us etc. when we first arrived and didn’t know how things were ‘done’. How long how you been there OP? I think you need to totally change your ‘world view’ because you really can’t apply UK social mores to they way people behave towards you, especially if you are white. Have you got any local friends you can talk to about this? Are you on the local mom Facebook group? You will get far more reasonable responses there than from Mumsnet. Also does your helper take your daughter to this park by herself? These men may know your daughter that way.

^No she shouldn't. But it would also feel pretty ridiculous for a poster to come on and say that she's living the expat life in Saudi and by the way isn't it a bit weird that she can't go running wearing gym shorts.

You can't go to a conservative Muslim country and think it is in any way weird that the role and expectations of women are different. Your freedom to disagree with those roles, but it's a bit pointless to post about it on a UK site.^

Fine. So I can stay in your country, provided I don't congregate with my friends (suddenly we're a 'gang'), don't go to the park, and don't interact with kids, in case I kidnap them.

Cheers guys. England is sadly becoming more and more hostile. Look at any of the papers today or over the last week and this will be transparent. You are part of the problem.

Some people are being deliberately obtuse.

Group of men on a bench in a park say hello and smile as you walk past, lovely.

Group of men with no children sitting watching a child's playground and shouting over to a child continuously, not lovely. Could be intimidating, could be harassment, could just be annoying, depending on their tone and what they're shouting.

Catcalling the toddler, harrying the toddler, demanding the toddler pay attention to them. The description of these men’s behaviour, which is aimed solely at the 2 year old, is very interesting.

@MrsMayJune

Catcalling the toddler, harrying the toddler, demanding the toddler pay attention to them. The description of these men’s behaviour, which is aimed solely at the 2 year old, is very interesting.

They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises

Catcalling and harrying? Really?

I suspect culture is the issue, plus indoor places have restrictions and/or they are poorly paid migrant workers.

When mine were tots the Mexican restaurant owners wife beelined over to use whenever we went in (around once a month) and chatted to my DD's, brought them snacks and foods that she made for her kids when they were small and loved twiddling their blonde curls ... she just thought fair, blonde, blue eyed babies were cute (her dd who I saw was a young adult and stunning, dark straight hair and olive skin, she also had a thing for my DD's)

The only posters I've seen mention someone calling the police are @thedancingbear. And I think @MrsMayJune was talking about Central Park. Is a mother being vigilant about unusual behaviour in their environment and potential uncomfortable situations for their child akin to those now?

Oh dear! Focussing on this actual thread, is the real problem about anyone protects children when some seem to be trying to say that women should not look at the environment or dodgy boundary transgressions. I remember when my offspring was young and I was in a playground in London. Other parents/carers and their children started leaving until I was the last one and three late teens/early twenty looking people arrived. I know it is very important to some posters that they should be some background, but to tell you the truth I don't even remember that. I do remember it was two males and a female. Increasingly boisterous and the guys coming nearer. I felt their behaviour was increasingly threatening. I grabbed my offspring and got out of their as quick as I could.

Op, I wouldn't listen to anyone who condones you or your child being hectored or harried. I do not think they come from a place of decency.

@Cailleach1, I suggest you read the earlier threads and you will see the OP was advised to report to the police.

Thedancingbear it’s all too transparent if you ask me. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

@MrsMayJune

Catcalling the toddler, harrying the toddler, demanding the toddler pay attention to them. The description of these men’s behaviour, which is aimed solely at the 2 year old, is very interesting.

Why? Do you think people can act how they like with them and no boundaries apply to a toddler?

Or that men should be able to do as they wish at all times? It looks like that to me.

Why? Do you think people can act how they like with them and no boundaries apply to a toddler?

Exactly. Toddlers don't owe random strangers anything.
My dd is very shy, I take her to the park when it's quieter so she can play in peace while we gradually try to build up her confidence. She would hate being shouted at by a group of strangers. So would I if I was just trying to get on with something and people were watching me and expecting me to perform or laugh at their joke or strike up a conversation. Once someone doesn't respond to you, why would you keep on trying to engage with them? It's weird.
And I'm not saying the OPs child is shy, even super confident toddlers can still find a group of adults shouting over to them intimidating. They're only little.

@EveryoneElseDoes

I'm completely with you. I make no comment about the culture there but, here, if a group of men were sitting on the swings and repeatedly calling over to my child from a distance to try to get their attention while they were playing, I would consider it rude, weird and harassing behaviour.

Maybe they realise it's intimidating and self-centred, maybe they don't, but if it was continuous or more than a one off in the UK I would probably call the police to put it on their radar or maybe come and have a word.

...

This is what racial intolerance looks like. There are multiple videos of people calling the police out because a brown person or people has had the temerity to exist in a 'white' area.

Haven't seen it on this thread. Also do you think that if a woman and her child are being harried that is ok and women are never allowed to call the police on men? Is the police service only for men to use? The US is being brought up for some reason. Hmm. Would the many women murdered in the US have also been wrong to call the police on a situation which was becoming threatening? Is it better that they got murdered than call the police? That is why is being implied. All those dead or attacked women were just big old phony females.

I'm sorry not that I would have prioritised my offspring's and my own safety over someone who was a threat. Even if they are of the precious sex class called men.

@Cailleach1

Haven't seen it on this thread. Also do you think that if a woman and her child are being harried that is ok and women are never allowed to call the police on men? Is the police service only for men to use? The US is being brought up for some reason. Hmm. Would the many women murdered in the US have also been wrong to call the police on a situation which was becoming threatening? Is it better that they got murdered than call the police? That is why is being implied. All those dead or attacked women were just big old phony females.

I'm sorry not that I would have prioritised my offspring's and my own safety over someone who was a threat. Even if they are of the precious sex class called men.

I've worked you out @calleach1. I see you.

I wouldn't like this at all and, cultural or not, large groups of men often seem to enjoy making women uncomfortable as it gives them a sense of power and they like to be the centre of attention.

I think you're talking about yourself and you're sounding a bit dodgy to me as you disregard women's and children's lives at the altar of men's whims. Even using and abusing ethnicity to do it. Trying to shoehorn it in on a thread about men generating discomfort. Trouble for you is that I'm not British.

Question: Can a woman ever call for help if she is in danger from a man? Or is that not allowed?

@thedancingbear

This is what racial intolerance looks like. There are multiple videos of people calling the police out because a brown person or people has had the temerity to exist in a 'white' area.

But in the context of where I was I just don't think that's what happened. Noone in the park is white except for me. The fact these men are immigrants or that there skin is brown is not remarkable for where I was, it's their behaviour that was unusual and weird.

Some of the replies and debate here is bonkers. Feeling what you feel is rarely unreasonable OP. If you’re uncomfortable your uncomfortable.

I’m very happy, delighted even, for people to say hello, engage for a minute or two with my children. But repeatedly calling over at them whilst they are playing - I would absolutely hate that and find it very uncomfortable. It’s happened a couple of times (other adults, other children being overly familiar or intrusive - I.e. ignoring signals that me or my children didn’t want to engage) and we have left and gone elsewhere. Being polite and British I wouldn’t know what to do either - for fear of offending and would probably do exactly what you have done and ask advice!

Ignore the pick me gaslighters’ OP.

YANBU and I think you are correct regarding their feelings of entitlement. They wouldn’t shout to your daughter if she was out with her Father.

Sending love and solidarity. It hurts daily when you’re aware of how men feel about women.

@SinoAZ if their skin colour was so unremarkable why did you ensure we all understood that you are a white female in the vicinity of brown males?

So unremarkable but remarkable enough to signal.

@SinoAZ

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

In many countries men are encouraged to love kids and try and have their families and provide for them as soon as possible, rather than build themselves a 30-40 year childhood like we do in the UK. Your DH is right they probably do miss their own kids.

Some of the replies and debate here is bonkers. Feeling what you feel is rarely unreasonable OP. If you’re uncomfortable your uncomfortable.

^This. And we’re so often told as mums that we should ‘trust our gut’. I would feel uncomfortable in the scenario described by the OP as well. It would feel intimidating, whatever their intentions might be.