To think these groups of men in the park are a bit weird

[SinoAZ]

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

MrsMayJune it isn't remotely the same! I suspect that you're deliberately twisting what you're reading - nobody can be that obtuse!

Ridiculous all the posters trying to make this a "race thing" but it was obvious that was how it was gonna go.

Yeah, a group of men hanging around a children's play park and repeatedly shouting at a child is weird behaviour. They could be trying to do it to get attention from the OP and assert authority (I suspect, if they do have ulterior motives it is probably the attention of the mothers they want - not the children - maybe they are sexually frustrated if they don't have their own wives/girlfriends around).

It boils down to:why on earth are a bunch of grown men hanging around on swings harassing mothers and their kids?
It's not like it's a one off if they're there every day.
They're not necessarily going to do anything but why should women have to put up with this kind of shit?

What op has described is male entitlement, whether those particular males mean anything worse by it or not. Even lovely men can act with male entitlement, unawares.

I'm sorry, sitting in a playground, repeatedly calling goes way beyond saying hello, or even making a huge fuss of a cute foreign toddler. They are in the child's space that is for playing, not appeasing males.

Maybe they're decent enough and unaware of this, but their behaviour is part of chip chip chipping away of children's, especially girls', boundaries. Part of the global grooming of women so that they know their place.

Doublestar groups of adults do hang around in parks in some countries though! It isn't "a race thing" but cultural - what's weird in one country isn't weird in another! Some posters are so determined to virtue signal that they're ignoring the utterly enormous difference between race and national cultural norms! Exactly the same way its normal for six year olds to walk to school without an adult in Germany or four year olds to go to the shop or take the underground unaccompanied in Japan, but if a Londoner let their children do those things they'd be condemned.

BTW I completely agree that what the men are doing is male entitlement!

Male entitlement is entrenched in all cultures but in many its completely open and unashamed, where in much of northern Europe and other countries its just as real but most of the time slightly disguised or hidden and regarded as not appropriate to admit to or exhibit openly.

Reminds me of the lady in Central Park who was being attacked by a black man who was several metres away from her

Yeah we get it, you want to cape for men whilst throwing women under the bus. Well done, extra woke points for you.

You know holding men of colour to a different standard to that of white men, is actually racist on your part?

Group of men in children's play park. Men repeatedly calling to child. OP uncomfortable with this. Repeated posts defending men's behaviour. Odd.

I am concerned that the OP is feeling uncomfortable around the behaviour of a group of men, and is being told to ignore her feelings and chastised for expressing her discomfort, uneasiness, and concern.

@SinoAZ

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

Your very first paragraph shows a great deal of naivety . What on earth does it matter what people in the UK do IF you are in Malaysia ? Any ex pat can tell you that things like this will happen living in other countries . As you say there are lots of "bachelors" working in such countries and yes they do gather and yes any person of an obviously different look especially Western gets attention . You must know what nationality they are - are they for example Bangladeshi which many of the bachelors are ? I would suggest that you take your husband one time and he speaks to them . It's not male entitlement - it's just life .

@Naunet I’m making no excuse for men’s harassment whatever their colour but I will not be complicit in demonising men and engaging in extreme descriptions where they pose no danger or threat.

The language used paints an extreme picture of them and if you remove all the extreme language, what you get is a group of men with nothing else to do using the swings in a public park and saying hi to a toddler.

No excuse for abusive behaviour from men and no excuse for women demonising men for just daring to exist in the same space as them.

MrsMaizel the thing is it is both male entitlement and just life. Life and people are complex mixes of baggage - history, culture, religion, upbringing, education, lived experience - even in simple everyday situations.

Men behaving in a demanding way in which women don't behave is both male entitlement and just life, and the social norms and expectations around the extent and expression of male entitlement varies by culture.

YANBU. It’s intimidating to have a group of men shouting out persistently when you’re just trying to get on with your own thing. A ‘good morning’ or ‘hi’ is fine, but the shouting out is what men do to show off in front of their peers. It would probably stop me wanting to go there..

I do think that there is a "cultural norms" element to this. I have no idea how you are in Malaysia or whether its even possible but are you part of a "sensible" expat group? Yjay may sound weird but I met a couple of expat groups in America who were decidedly NOT sensible. Could you get some input from them about how common it is and what the risk/situation actually is?
I genuinely don't think that those of us who have only lived in the Uk are in a position to judge or to advise.

"Yjay" =that....I am all fingers and thumbs today

MrsMayJune now you are minimising to such a brazen extent you sound as though you haven't actually read the op.

Repeatedly shouting out and making noises is not "saying hi" and anyone who can't understand the word repeatedly, or thinks its "extreme language" isn't in a position to lecture others on their use of language.

@Naunet I’m making no excuse for men’s harassment whatever their colour but I will not be complicit in demonising men and engaging in extreme descriptions where they pose no danger or threat

But you’re happy to demonise women. Got it, you’re a misogynist.

[quote MrsMayJune]@Naunet I’m making no excuse for men’s harassment whatever their colour but I will not be complicit in demonising men and engaging in extreme descriptions where they pose no danger or threat.

The language used paints an extreme picture of them and if you remove all the extreme language, what you get is a group of men with nothing else to do using the swings in a public park and saying hi to a toddler.

No excuse for abusive behaviour from men and no excuse for women demonising men for just daring to exist in the same space as them.[/quote]
They're not just existing though, they're demanding DD and I interact with/entertain them. You sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder about this - are you a man?

The first time they called out I did what I'd do with anyone - reciprocate their interaction so say hello back, wave back or have a conversation. But it quickly became clear that wasn't enough and they wanted repeated attention/hellos/waves. I'm just trying to exist in the park with DD, I'm not there as their entertainment. Writing all this has made me realise I don't think IABU at all.

I will update with DH's experience if I remember/if it happens. He's a man and local so it would be interesting to see if they did it to DD when he's there.

@SinoAZ you aren't being ridiculous. I lived abroad for a number of years, not Malaysia but def similarities in culture and came across this type of behaviour all the time. It never felt dangerous but always felt uncomfortable and inappropriate.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

MrsMaizel the thing is it is both male entitlement and just life. Life and people are complex mixes of baggage - history, culture, religion, upbringing, education, lived experience - even in simple everyday situations.

Men behaving in a demanding way in which women don't behave is both male entitlement and just life, and the social norms and expectations around the extent and expression of male entitlement varies by culture.

Maybe I should have said it is part and parcel of life and living in a multi national community . If you can't take it then don't travel to certain countries or don't live in them but you certainly cannot expect them to change to suit your agenda . Yes it is possible for us to decry the treatment of women in certain countries and while there are many women's groups challenging these ideas in their homelands , you cannot expect as an expat that your ideals are withheld in a foreign country .

The first time they called out I did what I'd do with anyone - reciprocate their interaction so say hello back, wave back or have a conversation

This was your first mistake . If your DH is local then I am surprised that he has not spoken to you about the likely scenarios you will encounter as an obviously different looking woman.

@FortunesFave

What nationality are these men? I remember in Italy, both men and women were very effusive about my DDs. One waitress walked around the restaurant with DD1 for quite some time....it was a family type restaurant and I wasn't at all worried. She was just loving a baby in the place...her Grandmother came down to see DD and sat with her next to me for a while. The men in shops would also give her sweets...the counter assistants you know.

I was going to say something aling these lines. In the UK we are notoriously dismissive of small children. Some other cultures are really sweet with them and they are fussed over and welcomed with open arms into restaurants etc.

We might not be comfortable with it, but doesn't mean it's wrong or sinister in any way.

and your interaction with them has reinforced that you are easy to speak to etc and may even have confirmed that Western women ( if you are ) are seen as w**s by certain men/religions/nationalities.

Let's put it this way for the first few posters. Would you, as a female, or male do this in the park. Would you go to the park with a group of friends and the repeatedly call on a little girl playing in the park with her mother? Not just day hello, but keep shouting to her and waving and being persistent in getting her attention? I doubt it.

MrsMaizel that's actually what I was trying to get at! I don't think there's anything to be gained by denying that this is male entitlement, nor by trying to insist cultural norms are the same in every country (or even region) as the posters desperate to jump on and shout that they aren't racist therefore would expect the same behaviour in Malaysia as in England or in any other country are obtusely doing.

It's how it is and as a guest in a country it is necessary to understand that cultural expectations are different - but that doesn't mean that some things aren't uncomfortable or downright unpleasant or very difficult, just as other things are better than elsewhere.

The OP appears from her latest post to be married to a Malaysian citizen, so her own situation is more complicated and she's (as she herself says) an immigrant with a vested interest in her adopted country, not an expat.

@MrsMaizel

The first time they called out I did what I'd do with anyone - reciprocate their interaction so say hello back, wave back or have a conversation

This was your first mistake . If your DH is local then I am surprised that he has not spoken to you about the likely scenarios you will encounter as an obviously different looking woman.

Your thinking is all over the place. So I shouldn't "demonise brown men" or whatever it was you said but also I shouldn't treat them with common courtesy because it's in their nature to harass women. That's fucked up. Please stop trolling.