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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think these groups of men in the park are a bit weird

243 replies

SinoAZ · 15/07/2021 04:55

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

OP posts:
MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 13:28

Should the OP have been bothered if they were well dressed men with jobs calling out to her daughter? Yes so why bring in that they are immigrants?

The OP said her husband mentioned that they are immigrants to minimise their behaviour or as she said to make sn excuse or reason away their behaviour. Yet apparently it’s others who are seeking to minimise their behaviour.

The issue is that pointing out that they are immigrants is totally irrelevant and the only reason for doing so is an unpleasant one.

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 15/07/2021 13:45

MrsMayJune have you missed that the OP refers to herself as an immigrant and gives plenty of context about why immigrant workers in Malaysia are more likely at the moment to be hanging about in parks and missing their families as most of the workplaces they are recruited to work in are currently closed due to Malaysia's specific covid policies. Are you completely ignoring the fact that the situation is occurring in Malaysia, so immigrant means not a citizen of Malaysia?

MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 13:54

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

No I’m not missing that at all. Here’s the interesting thing; although OP was clear that she too is an immigrant she was able to also communicate that she is a different type of immigrant.

The fact that they are immigrants is totally irrelevant to the OP’s concern about her child’s safety. Are we to believe that only immigrant males are freely using the park? If they were locals, would that have mattered at all and would we have needed an explanation as to why they were more or less likely to be in the park?

I put it to you that the extra details had nothing to do with understanding the concern about males calling out to her daughter. The details served only one purpose and that is to paint a picture of suspicion about not just their maleness but also that they are different immigrants to her more acceptable type of immigrant.

This nonsense needs to be called out and stopped.

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 15/07/2021 13:59

MrsMayJune it's clear that you have an agenda, though I suspect it's just to virtue signal rather than genuinely address unconscious prejudice. I'm very aware of the "wrong type of immigrant" / "we didn't mean you narrative, but most people invested in defining themselves as a different type of immigrant call themselves expats. You're barking up the wrong tree on this thread IMO.

MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 14:00

And all this nonsense about mentioning they are immigrants to possibly give reasons why they were calling her daughter. Minimising as some sort of sympathy for why they behave this way. Then claiming that it’s others who are minimising. The purpose for supplementing their maleness with what type of immigrants they are is very much questionable.

MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 14:05

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme of course calling out these behaviours is what’s wrong? Because I must have an agenda? So let’s not address the issue, let’s turn it around and make up this story about others having an agenda.

I have no agenda other than disgust for these behaviours that continually get excused by people like you.

If you want to make yourself feel better by thinking I have an agenda, then that’s your issue. Frankly I wouldn’t be a bad thing if I did make this an agenda of min. I probably should be doing far more to help society tackle this issue. You’ve actually got me thinking now about this.

helpfulperson · 15/07/2021 14:07

I do think there is a huge cultural issue at play. Mumsnet tends to feel strongly that the british way is the only right way. This shows up as mentioned earlier in the response to german 6 year olds walking to school and Danish babies being left outside shops. Without knowing enough about Malaysia culture there is no way to know if this is usual or different. UK culture has us trained to perceive this as harassment. Doesn't mean that's the intent behind it. But if it makes you uncomfortable you are perfectly reasonable to ask them not to as you did.

Original poster
SinoAZ · 15/07/2021 14:09

@MrsMayJune what do you mean I've "communicated that I'm a different kind of immigrant"? I honestly don't understand that.

OP posts:
UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 15/07/2021 14:23

MrsMayJune the OP's post is about male entitlement in a very specific cultural setting. It is all relevant. It is as another poster said also just life in that specific context, but that doesn't change the fact that a group of men are making a lone woman and child feel unsafe by repeatedly calling to them, making noises and demanding ongoing interaction. Why you are determined to minimise this to "just saying hi" and make the OP feel guilty for describing the situation is questionable. Why are you so determined that the OP not be allowed to describe the context in which she was and continues to be harassed by a group of men when out on her own with her toddler?

MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 14:26

No you won’t understand yet it was easy to work out you are a white female.

Naunet · 15/07/2021 14:29

[quote MrsMayJune]@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme of course calling out these behaviours is what’s wrong? Because I must have an agenda? So let’s not address the issue, let’s turn it around and make up this story about others having an agenda.

I have no agenda other than disgust for these behaviours that continually get excused by people like you.

If you want to make yourself feel better by thinking I have an agenda, then that’s your issue. Frankly I wouldn’t be a bad thing if I did make this an agenda of min. I probably should be doing far more to help society tackle this issue. You’ve actually got me thinking now about this.[/quote]
What like your not addressing the issue of inappropriate male behaviour and instead are trying to derail this thread with your own issues?

Naunet · 15/07/2021 14:30

*youre

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 15/07/2021 14:33

MrsMayJune you make yourself sound like a man who has deliberately chosen to call himself "Mrs" on a mainly female forum in order to gaslight women and try to shame them for discussing male entitlement and being made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe by groups of men... I wonder why a man would be invested in doing that, but I'd wonder even more if a woman was ...

Naunet · 15/07/2021 14:34

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

MrsMayJune you make yourself sound like a man who has deliberately chosen to call himself "Mrs" on a mainly female forum in order to gaslight women and try to shame them for discussing male entitlement and being made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe by groups of men... I wonder why a man would be invested in doing that, but I'd wonder even more if a woman was ...
Absolutely agree.
MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 14:35

Yep, I’m definitely male. News to be but if you say so I must be male. Otherwise how could I possibly have the temerity to think differently to your idea of how I should regard this issue as a woman. Well I do apologise Hmm.

Naunet · 15/07/2021 14:39

@MrsMayJune

Yep, I’m definitely male. News to be but if you say so I must be male. Otherwise how could I possibly have the temerity to think differently to your idea of how I should regard this issue as a woman. Well I do apologise Hmm.
It’s your utter contempt for women, but hey, maybe it’s just your internalised misogyny?
Original poster
SinoAZ · 15/07/2021 15:11

@MrsMayJune

No you won’t understand yet it was easy to work out you are a white female.
How about you guess the races of everyone else mentioned.
OP posts:
KatieB55 · 15/07/2021 15:15

We were in Malaysia with three small children and they really didn't like the attention they got. It's a kind of over familiarity that is uncomfortable. They got used to it, smiled and got on with what they were doing. We only once felt slightly unsafe at a festival in Malacca but otherwise had no problems and we went to some fairly remote places.

MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 15:18

Internalised misogyny, guess everyone else race. What else will you come up with to deflect from you unnecessarily bringing your contrasting immigrant identities when it was absolutely unnecessary? Typically tactic of deflect and being the victim when unsavoury behaviours are called out. I see you.

Carry on with the problem being me either being male or having internalised misogyny. That does the trick, does it of avoiding you having a deep look within.

I wonder what else you’ll come up with to convince yourself that I am not entitled to be a proper woman, according to your idea of what a real right-minded woman should be and think Grin

Original poster
SinoAZ · 15/07/2021 15:21

@KatieB55

We were in Malaysia with three small children and they really didn't like the attention they got. It's a kind of over familiarity that is uncomfortable. They got used to it, smiled and got on with what they were doing. We only once felt slightly unsafe at a festival in Malacca but otherwise had no problems and we went to some fairly remote places.
Yes, DD doesn't like people getting close to her. These guys didn't do that but someone else did today and she cried.
OP posts:
Cailleach1 · 15/07/2021 15:32

It appears to me that some posters are trying to smear everyone with a political agenda, despite they themselves trying to shoehorn some agenda which is irrelevant to the situation. Hectoring.

Should the op and her child have to put up with random groups of men (who are strangers) harrying them? Unwanted and uninvited harrying? I think not. Some posters may think yes. Maybe even that they should apologise for existing and taking up space.

thedancingbear · 15/07/2021 15:34

Look, anyone with half a brain cell can see that there is a pretty nasty racist undertone to this thread.

It is entirely possible to care about women's rights and find the kind of insinuations that have been made here (less by the OP than others) pretty disturbing.

Racial prejudice is not okay just because it is aimed at a man, or group of men.

thedancingbear · 15/07/2021 15:35

@Cailleach1

It appears to me that some posters are trying to smear everyone with a political agenda, despite they themselves trying to shoehorn some agenda which is irrelevant to the situation. Hectoring.

Should the op and her child have to put up with random groups of men (who are strangers) harrying them? Unwanted and uninvited harrying? I think not. Some posters may think yes. Maybe even that they should apologise for existing and taking up space.

And you also have some posters that think immigrant men should have the police called on them, for having the cheek to congregate in a public park.
Cailleach1 · 15/07/2021 15:39

Again, that is a smear. To further some agenda. Do you really think groups of men without children should congregate in playgrounds and harry the children? Jeepers.

MrsMayJune · 15/07/2021 15:39

@thedancingbear, exactly and hiding behind this faux in-the-name of women’s right is disgusting. A shield to avoid being called out for this underlying racist undertone.

I hold the OP accountable because their immigration identity relative to hers is utterly irrelevant.

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