To think these groups of men in the park are a bit weird

[SinoAZ]

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

@Cooldryplace

I think it's really sad that men can't be friendly to a child, without it seeming weird.

My grandad was lovely with children and would have other people's little ones climbing all over him wherever we went. When my dad, who's also lively with children, collected my DC from school, he would arrive at the very last minute because he felt so uncomfortable "loitering" around a school

Plenty of men are friendly to her and it's not weird at all! Like there was a man doing pull ups on the kids play equipment (adults using the park is definitely a thing here!) Anyway, she was fascinated by what he was doing - he smiled and said hello to her and it was all very normal. He didn't shout at her from across the park though and I'm sure your dad/grandad wouldn't have either!

@Cooldryplace

I think it's really sad that men can't be friendly to a child, without it seeming weird.

My grandad was lovely with children and would have other people's little ones climbing all over him wherever we went. When my dad, who's also lively with children, collected my DC from school, he would arrive at the very last minute because he felt so uncomfortable "loitering" around a school

Actually sorry this is a derail but I just can't leave this comment unchallenged.

I abhor this attitude that you and your dad have. It's extremely regressive and damaging to women and children. The way I see it is we are increasingly calling attention to the harm caused by men to women and children ie sexual abuse (catcalling, flashing, assault, rape...). Of course the police still don't take these things seriously and you end up with tragedies like Sarah Everard. But society is not silent about these things anymore and it's making the world a safer place for all of us. I feel like ten years ago if someone had flashed me/DD I would have hurried away and done nothing more. No way would I do that now, the police would be involved as it's sexual assault. And that's because of raised awareness of how harmful and unacceptable this male behaviour is.

So I'm not sorry that your dad feels uncomfortable standing at the school gate. What exactly is it that he is worried about? That someone will think mean thoughts about him? Because to me that's vastly preferable to a woman avoiding going about her daily routine because she's worried someone will assault her or her children.

I think it's really sad that men can't be friendly to a child, without it seeming weird. there's friendly then there's hanging round in groups being extremely persistent.

So I'm not sorry that your dad feels uncomfortable standing at the school gate. What exactly is it that he is worried about? That someone will think mean thoughts about him? Because to me that's vastly preferable to a woman avoiding going about her daily routine because she's worried someone will assault her or her children.

Maybe she's worried that someone will bring up catcalling, flashing, assault, rape when he's just trying to pick his grandkids up and be pleased that he's uncomfortable doing this simple thing.

I do find this behaviour very intrusive.

I would be very nervous if was out on my own with my child.

BTW I absolutely have no issues with men being friendly to my child but I don’t like that behaviour.

I’m not sure what you can do other than maybe have a quiet word with the park warden about adults being in parks. I suggest doing this on a day when not going to the park and/or asking your husband to do for you.

Problem is once it becomes normalised there’s a risk of them following you (this has happened to me before) and it is not a pleasant experience. I’m not sure what would have happened (if anything) but I remember feeling threatened and my heart was racing.

Other than that go to the park at a different time of day (this is what I did).

When my dad, who's also lively with children, collected my DC from school, he would arrive at the very last minute because he felt so uncomfortable "loitering" around a school why does he feel uncomfortable though. He is collecting his grandchild from school. Loads of men do the school pick up round here. No one bats an eyelid.

@Cooldryplace
You are projecting massively here. I know exactly what op is talking about.

God this thread is weird op. Ignore some of the crap posted. YANBU at all. I would not like this one bit. I also would go and talk to the police.

This feels like loitering, intimidating and cat calling toddlers. It is very possible the men don’t realise the impact they are having. But they may do and don’t care, which is why I’d be talking to the police.

Are you in a relationship? My take would be to go there as often as you can with your partner / husband and see how they are with your dd then. I bet you the comments will stop.

OP you’re knowledgeable enough about this situation and can obviously sort it out yourself, so there’s no need to post on Mumsnet for advice. It’s an interesting topic and all that - and will generate a fierce debate, but find something else to do. Cheers.

Well said!

That was to OP's last comment.

@HappySwordMaker

OP you’re knowledgeable enough about this situation and can obviously sort it out yourself, so there’s no need to post on Mumsnet for advice. It’s an interesting topic and all that - and will generate a fierce debate, but find something else to do. Cheers.

OP is entitled to post here. If you don't like it, close the thread!

Unless you are clearly a carer for a child (i.e. grandparent, parent, carer) I see no reason at all that someone, male or female should hang out in a children's playground (on the swings or off).

Anyway you frame it it is going to be intimidating for kids and other vulnerable people.

With some playgrounds there are signs up saying not to be used by over fourteens/sixteens etc.

A park bench is different.

@HappySwordMaker

OP you’re knowledgeable enough about this situation and can obviously sort it out yourself, so there’s no need to post on Mumsnet for advice. It’s an interesting topic and all that - and will generate a fierce debate, but find something else to do. Cheers.

Er excuse you. I've never experienced anyone essentially catcalling my toddler and was, despite what you seem to think, quite thrown by it!

@custardbear

Putting just normal friendly behaviours aside for a moment, is it a particularly bad area for child abductions? Just wondering if they're trying to familiarise themselves with local kids so if they did try to take a child the kids would believe they 'knew' them?

@custardbear - this is racist bollocks.

Please provide evidence that immigrants kidnap children, or STFU. Cheers.

This thread is in danger of demonising these men against fragile, damsel in distress western woman.

From what I know, the men who pose most danger to children often look very different from the men you are describing.

We all must be very vigilant no matter where we are and we must never assume the people who we should fear most do not look like us or are friends m a different culture.

Do these people not have a more appropriate location to socialise? A children's park when you don't have children with you seems odd to me.

@slashlover

So I'm not sorry that your dad feels uncomfortable standing at the school gate. What exactly is it that he is worried about? That someone will think mean thoughts about him? Because to me that's vastly preferable to a woman avoiding going about her daily routine because she's worried someone will assault her or her children.

Maybe she's worried that someone will bring up catcalling, flashing, assault, rape when he's just trying to pick his grandkids up and be pleased that he's uncomfortable doing this simple thing.

So he's worried that someone might mention sexual assault when he's doing a totally normal thing (picking up his grandkids) and therefore we're not allowed to discuss male behaviour and whether it is harmful? Riiight. Makes sense.

@HappySwordMaker that was breathtakingly rude. What on earth gives you the right to talk to someone else like that?

@HappySwordMaker if everyone had your strange attitude there would be very few threads on MN.

The OP is free to post what she wants.

There are some odd, almost defensive replies here. I would certainly be unsettled by groups of adults on swings repetitively calling out to children. That’s quite a distance from ‘just being friendly’. I can’t think of much of a solution though except avoid the area (but why should you?) or confront them.

Are people seriously saying OP should call the police on these men? Why exactly because she does not like the look of them, they say hello to her daughter? Are there any other women with kids in that park or is it just you OP? Do they say hello to any of the other kids or just yours?

Do they local women seem scared or is it just you?

You mentioned male entitlement but I think there is another entitlement going on here.

I'd avoid them if there's a next time. I'd avoid a group of men in UK if they were in the park and trying to engage.

@redcarbluecar

There are some odd, almost defensive replies here. I would certainly be unsettled by groups of adults on swings repetitively calling out to children. That’s quite a distance from ‘just being friendly’. I can’t think of much of a solution though except avoid the area (but why should you?) or confront them.

The thing is, it's difficult to gauge whether this behaviour is genuinely creepy and iffy, unless you're actually there to see it.

The OP's description is sufficiently vague to encompass simple friendliness (and an openness that we're perhaps not to seeing here), as well as more worrying, even threatening behaviour.

This leaves a vacuum that allows posters with their own agendas to impose their own views on the situation.

And brings the racists out too, which is useful in its way.

The more I think about the language used to paint a picture of these men the more annoyed I am. Immigrants, catcalling (seriously? catcalling a toddler when all the seem to have done is say hello)?

Painting a picture of threatening, dangerous immigrants about to abduct and rape the kids.

@MrsMayJune

Are people seriously saying OP should call the police on these men? Why exactly because she does not like the look of them, they say hello to her daughter? Are there any other women with kids in that park or is it just you OP? Do they say hello to any of the other kids or just yours?

Do they local women seem scared or is it just you?

You mentioned male entitlement but I think there is another entitlement going on here.

There was another little girl in the park yesterday (it's normally empty of kids). I actually didn't notice them calling out to her, I wasn't paying loads of attention though so perhaps they did. As I said, I don't think these men have harmful intentions, I don't think they're going to kidnap DD, I just find their behaviour weird and intrusive.

I also don't have any problem with "the look of them" (I assume you're referring to their race). It's their behaviour I don't like.