To think these groups of men in the park are a bit weird

[SinoAZ]

I'm not in the UK so I guess there's cultural expectations that might be different but I'm British and would like to know what other British mums think/how you'd react to this. Do people even do this in the UK?

Since restrictions lifted I've been taking my 18 month old DD to the park. We used to go before restrictions and we'd see old people walking, other families etc and sometimes chat to them. Now because of continuing restrictions there are lots of people not working so there are largeish groups of young men who hang around the park (maybe 6 or 7 of them). They sit at the picnic benches or swing on the swings which of course is fine, it's a nice place to be. But they keep shouting at my DD. They'll call out to her "hello baby girl" repeatedly and wave and make faces/silly noises which, to me, just feels a bit inappropriate. Like yes say hello/wave to her if she comes near you but to shout so repeatedly makes me uncomfortable.

DH says they're harmless and probably just miss their own kids (I think they're immigrants like me but will have come to work here and left their families in their home country). I don't feel threatened by them at all but I can't help feel that they wouldn't be shouting at her if she was with DH and it feels like that male entitlement to women's time/attention again. AIBU to feel a bit uncomfortable with this?

Maybe it's just a lifetime of experiences like this with men colouring my view but I hate that expectation that when a man wants to speak to you he can be so insistent and refuse to take no for an answer. I don't want that to be happening to my daughter before she's even two.

Sorry that was long, a bit of a vent as well as an AIBU.

@MrsMayJune

This thread is in danger of demonising these men against fragile, damsel in distress western woman.

From what I know, the men who pose most danger to children often look very different from the men you are describing.

We all must be very vigilant no matter where we are and we must never assume the people who we should fear most do not look like us or are friends m a different culture.

The nationality of the men in this situation is irrelevant. It is how they’re reacting. Rather like a pack. I wouldn’t be ok with this happening in my local park with a bunch of local young men. It is intimidating. I’d also be contacting the police.

I have yet to see a group of young local men acting like this at any park. That’s because this behaviour is not societally accepted in the U.K. or Spain, where op is…. And we also cannot get away from the fact that a fair proportion of men from some cultures feel entitled to act in ways, which is not acceptable here. I’ve was petrified and turned tail when I was leered at and catcalled by every single male when I stepped a foot out of my hotel alone in Tunisia many years ago.

It’s a micro aggression. It would piss me off too.

It's not massively different from the many ways that men try to get women's attention pretty much anywhere in the world. Certainly I was constantly pestered by men as a young woman in London. It doesn't mean that they're going to do anything terrible, but it does mean that as women we can't go about our business undisturbed. Men, on the whole, do not experience these constant demands on their time. I don't know what you do about it OP. Going with your DH might help, but we can't all constantly have male chaperones to get other men to leave us alone.

Yeah, we only have the OP’s details to go on, as with any thread. She said these men ‘keep shouting…repeatedly’ and are on swings. That seems to go beyond the normal ‘hello’ you might exchange with a stranger/their kids in a park.

I also think nationality/ethnicity is an unhelpful area of focus here.

The only thing I can think of with the ethnicity is are they of a religion that forbids alcohol so they can't go to a pub or bar to socialise so choose the park instead?

Sounds like they’re using your daughter as a conduit to you. So, they know that catcalling you would lead to trouble, but ‘nobody can take offence to us being friendly to a baby, can they, Officer?’

They’re well aware they’re making you uncomfortable. Listen to your gut. If it’s telling you something is off, it’s off.

Yes, I can understand that this behaviour would be unwelcome. It's forcing an uninvited exchange and the group ratios are all out for it to be a pleasant experience. It read to me like being the new kid at school at break time and a pack being pseudo-friendly for their own entertainment.

I don't think grown ups should be out playing on swings in a large group - that's a bit odd if they don't have their own kids there too. Why would a group of adults choose to hang around in a children's playpark?

I can understand sitting on a picnic table or on the grass or whatever as a group, but actually playing on the swings is weird.

I'm not saying there's anything dodgy going on but I just think it's odd and I'd be uncomfortable about it too - parks are for kids, if you don't have kids, why are you there? And especially shouting out to children that you don't know?

I don't know what you should do about it, but I can understand your concern.

Do you know any other parents who use this park? If so maybe you could ask around, find out if other people are also finding this uncomfortable and go from there.

@LunaNorth

Sounds like they’re using your daughter as a conduit to you. So, they know that catcalling you would lead to trouble, but ‘nobody can take offence to us being friendly to a baby, can they, Officer?’

They’re well aware they’re making you uncomfortable. Listen to your gut. If it’s telling you something is off, it’s off.

I don't get that feeling from this, it does seem to be my daughter they want to interact with. Normally people are not shy at all about calling out to me if they want my attention. It's not socially unacceptable at all for them to do that (even though I don't like it because of previous bad experiences).

@araiwa

A woman said hello to me this morning at work.

What is it with femal entitlement to my time and demanding a response from me. I hate the expectation of women demanding I interact with them

🤨 sure, let’s pretend it’s not a thing, even though anyone with a brain cell knows it is.

@MoreAloneTime

The only thing I can think of with the ethnicity is are they of a religion that forbids alcohol so they can't go to a pub or bar to socialise so choose the park instead?

That's fair enough but they are actually IN the children's play area and calling out to children - that's weird behaviour for a group of adults.

I agree with LunaNorth, they are trying to get you to interact with them. It’s harassment and I don’t understand the wide-eyed naivety of pp. In some places it’s the price of being female and daring to exist in the world without a man permanently in tow.

I don't get that feeling from this, it does seem to be my daughter they want to interact with. Normally people are not shy at all about calling out to me if they want my attention. It's not socially unacceptable at all for them to do that (even though I don't like it because of previous bad experiences)

It's probably to do with cultural differences and maybe they don't actually know they're making you uncomfortable. Cultural misunderstandings don't have to be a big deal but I think they do have to be addressed - you shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable at a park your kids play in.

That's why I think it's a good idea to talk to other parents, see if they feel the same, and if so find a way to sensitively approach them and tell them that this is not appropriate. They might just not know the etiquette.

@MrsMayJune

The more I think about the language used to paint a picture of these men the more annoyed I am. Immigrants, catcalling (seriously? catcalling a toddler when all the seem to have done is say hello)?

Painting a picture of threatening, dangerous immigrants about to abduct and rape the kids.

Yep, yet another MN thread where brown = dangerous

Cooldryplace
I think it's really sad that men can't be friendly to a child, without it seeming weird

My grandad was lovely with children and would have other people's little ones climbing all over him wherever we went. When my dad, who's also lively with children, collected my DC from school, he would arrive at the very last minute because he felt so uncomfortable "loitering" around a school

Well men can blame other men for that can’t they? It’s not women’s fault, or our problem to solve.

Yep, yet another MN thread where brown = dangerous

No love, it’s men = dangerous.

They're not being friendly to the child, chatting to her, or playing with her at her own level, are they. They're shouting at her, goading her, distracting her from playing.

They sound bored and like they're targeting her for their own amusement. She's the object of their game, not the subject of her own game.

Can you say hello once, then ignore them? How they react to that would tell you a lot about them. Whether they get bored and ignore you, or ramp up their interference. In which case you'd need to leave but you'd know that was their game and could talk to others about them.

I'd want to chat to other local mums now, just find out if they've experienced similar and how they deal with it.

IME youths and young men on children's play equipment are always there as a display of power, a statement of being bigger and better than the children the equipment is designed for. Also as a way of declaring themselves entirely different from the children they were themselves, only a few years ago. It's a pissing on others' territory thing.

Yeah, @MrsMayJune I agree. I can understand the concern but this thread is starting to feel an awful lot like fragile white womanhood. The men are likely from a friendlier group culture than the OP where it takes a village to raise a child.

And to correct other posters, the men are hanging out in a generic park, not specifically a children’s park. No need to demonize them for sitting on the swings when there are barely any kids around by her own admission anyway.

@SimonJT it's not their race that makes me disturbed by their behaviour, it's their sex. Male.

@Naunet you would be right if OP did not make a point of highlighting they are immigrants and different. If the concern was just about their gender then why tell us about their immigration and possible employment status?

I'd feel uncomfortable with this too as it seems to go way beyond just being friendly and not really comparable to some pp's examples, a group of men hanging around a children's park repeatedly calling out to a woman on her own with a young dd is in no way they same as a male family member collecting a child from school!

@JingsMahBucket

Yeah, *@MrsMayJune* I agree. I can understand the concern but this thread is starting to feel an awful lot like fragile white womanhood. The men are likely from a friendlier group culture than the OP where it takes a village to raise a child.

And to correct other posters, the men are hanging out in a generic park, not specifically a children’s park. No need to demonize them for sitting on the swings when there are barely any kids around by her own admission anyway.

Im sure the police officers who turned a blind eye to Rotherham would agree 🙄 fragile white womanhood? What a load of shit, women are at risk from men, no matter what the races involved are. We’re not duty bound to give non white men a free pass.

@SinoAZ so why did you make a point to reference they are immigrants and of a different race to you?

When I read your title, I thought that I had seen large groups socializing in parks abroad but not in Britain, and opened your thread wondering if this was about groups of expats here.
But you are abroas, and I think iit is just normal life in some places. Free, spacious, chance to hang out, and in many cultures, it is not regarded as strange for adults, even adult men, to talk to random children. In fact, until not that long ago, it wasn't generally regarded as odd here either.