To think freedom from lockdown will be cancelled before Monday

[Viviennemary]

I think there will be backpedalling on the lockdown lifting. Really pessimistic news today. We are being prepared. IMHO.

Very few people on the thread have said we shouldn't be opening up, we're already fairly opened anyway, the general consensus is that it should be done more cautiously and some small measure such as masks and travel limitations should be temporarily retained due to the rising case numbers.

@Snoozer11

The schools closing for the summer will help to halt the spread.

66% of adults are fully vaccinated. Hospitalisations are increasing but not to the extent they were before vaccines, and deaths are at around 10% of the level they were at without vaccines.

If we lockdown in September, like so many seem to think we will, then frankly we will never be able to get back to normality.

The spread will not be halted by the schools closing and everyone mixing.

James o Brian on lbc radio had an interesting call today from a man who is convinced the government want to keep having lockdowns ( so therefore lifting some of the restrictions on Monday ) to stop people questioning brexit and that is the real reason the economy is struggling.
James didn't entirely agree with him , but it's an interesting thought that this is but a cunning plan to have to shut down again in the autumn. Already people are saying ' corona restrictions had caused this and that ' without really knowing if it is this or brexit that has caused a downturn ?

@AlternativePerspective

They are putting it on us just like Johnson did last time. It won't be their fault it fails, it will be ours for not taking "personal responsibility". But to an extent, he’s right.

If we go into lockdown there are cries of what about our human rights?” And yet when people are told to take personal responsibility they complain that the government isn’t telling them what to do.

It’s not rocket science.

If your local pub is full then don’t go in there.

If you’re on public transport then wear a mask.

Instead of crying about that holiday you so desperately need don’t go abroad and risk catching it there and bringing it back.

Why must the government be held responsible for your every move? Are people not capable of thinking for themselves?

And before people say “well obviously many aren’t,” I’m talking about the people complaining that restrictions are being lifted as if they’re being summoned into the local night clubs and on to the costa del sole.

Because this is a public health issue.

If covid is rife, then infected people will be in pubs, in supermarkets, on public transport, in hospital staff and carers, and in your family members.

I'm not saying we should be hiding away. But I can avoid the pubs all I want, and I can wear a mask as much as you want. It's not going to protect you if someone in your household gets it. And people can't stay inside forever.

Masks also protect those around you. You're not protected if someone who's positive is breathing all over you but you're wearing a mask.

I'm not saying restrictions should remain. But you can't apply personal responsibility to this situation like that.

@the80sweregreat

Are the rest of the world in on it too? Sorry but no, that’s not what is happening.

@Carrysymons

No. My daughter, along with most of her Uni friends, just had Covid, me and DH who are double vaccinated didn't catch it. The vaccine works (for now) so no need to keep restrictions. For those vulnerable people who are saying we need to keep restrictions to protect you, I am sorry for your situation but no, life needs to get back to normal for the rest of us.

Hi! My partner and I are double jabbed and we managed to catch it from one of our unvaccinated friends. Many others we know who are double jabbed have caught it.

That being said... we (and most of the other double jabbed that we know) only have bad cold symptoms at worst, so the vaccine is doing it's job in that respect. The person who we caught it from who doesn't want the jab is very, very ill as we speak!

I do agree that we do need to learn to live with Covid - I say this as someone who currently has the virus - but to get rid of masks and ALL legal restrictions at this stage is probably a very bad move.

It's all about passing the buck! But to anyone who is reading this who is unsure whether to have the vaccine - please please please get vaccinated. It is quite a selfish decision if you do not have a medical reason not to get it. That will be an unpopular opinion though, I'm sure.

Well it doesn't look like it will be cancelled before Monday . But I think we will have another lockdown of sorts. All those football and sports crowds big mistake.

I think it will go ahead, but we'll possibly have restrictions re-imposed in the autumn.

Chatting with a CEV friend this morning. Outside, in her garden. Still distancing, because she and her DH are both CEV, and I'm CV. They went to visit their adult children yesterday, because they fear that many people will simply stop wearing masks and distancing in a few days.

The general consensus amongst CV and CEV friends is that too many people are just incredibly selfish, and lack humility. They refuse to wear masks or SD, because they don't think it'll ever happen tot hem, and they really don't give a toss if they inadvertently spread it amongst other people.

The local hospitals ICUs are filling with Covid patients. The UK has the most new cases of any country in the world, and the English govt is lifting restrictions from Monday. I remember watching those scenes coming out of Italy last year, and being horrified.

The death toll in the UK has since skyrocketed.

Have some humility, people. It isn't just about you. All this "You do you, and I'll do me" crap is just an excuse to be selfish and irresponsible.

@LemonRoses This government is creating a global health risk knowingly and willingly, allowing perfect conditions for an ever more successful variant. One seems to be emerging in NE at moment, so suspect other countries will shortly stop travel from UK. This. Absolutely this.

Oh, and masks do work. Apologies for the DM link. That's the one the Doctor on twitter provided. They wrote the article.

www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/health/medical-matters/85902/why-it-would-be-madness-for-us-to-stop-wearing-face-masks-now

From the article:

What we know now is that the virus is actually transmitted via tiny airborne particles that, in enclosed spaces, stay in the air, waiting to infect someone else. So not only does a mask prevent airborne particles from being released into the air, a mask also prevents us from inhaling those airborne particles.

Say you’re infected but, like around 50 per cent of people who pass on the virus, have no symptoms, and you’re in an empty carriage on your own. If you take off your mask and spend ten minutes exhaling virus particles before getting off the train, you have filled that carriage with contaminated air and the next person that steps into it is at risk.

Those refusing to mask up really are risking other people's lives.

I think Monday will go ahead, but my money is on the next few weeks looking very much like they did in the Netherlands. Restrictions - harsher ones than we have now - reintroduced within a few weeks.

Very few people on the thread have said we shouldn't be opening up, we're already fairly opened anyway, the general consensus is that it should be done more cautiously and some small measure such as masks and travel limitations should be temporarily retained due to the rising case numbers.

Exactly. That’s what I don’t really understand about people who say things like ‘we can’t live in lockdown forever’ or ‘we can’t have restrictions forever to protect a few CV people’. I have certainly never heard anyone say restrictions should be around ‘forever’.

But I find it difficult to understand why, after 18 months of extreme caution, in the face of stark warnings from scientists, we’re binning absolutely ALL measures in the face of rising infections with only just over 50% of the population double-vaccinated. Particularly the Netherlands tried something similar a few weeks ago and the outcome was terrible.

My concern is that we’ll end up taking four steps forward and eight steps back.

Just waiting for the vaccine resistant virus....

26 degrees today

Too hot to be covered like this, when does it become a hazard to those wearing then 10+ hours a day

100 colleagues and 90% will ditch them on Monday

Exactly. That’s what I don’t really understand about people who say things like ‘we can’t live in lockdown forever’ or ‘we can’t have restrictions forever to protect a few CV people’. I have certainly never heard anyone say restrictions should be around ‘forever’.

I haven't seen anyone saying 'forever' either, but I have seen a lot of people who said 'a few more weeks' last month who are still saying 'a few more weeks'. How many 'a few more weeks' are we supposed to have?

I have mixed feelings about Monday. I'm slightly worried about it. I'll keep wearing my mask and avoiding busy places. At the same time, I do want us to fully open eventually and worry that if we don't now, there will always be a reason to delay for 'a few more weeks'.

At what point do all the pessimist think it's safe to open up?

We're already opened up!

No one is calling for another strict lockdown (though the months of lockdown could have been avoided if the government had reacted properly and not dragged their heels so much when the pandemic started) but basic things like keeping mask mandates don't affect people's ability to earn a living or access education.

This being Mumsnet I'm sure a flood of indignant posters will arrive to say that masks absolutely prevent them from doing their jobs, that they're constantly attacked for not wearing one, and that a bit of fabric is a huge violation of our freedom, somehow. But the fact is the majority of people can wear a mask and those with a genuine disability have always been exempt.

Removing the mask mandate will have a negative impact on the economy as it will cause rates to spike even higher, meaning more people get pinged and have to isolate, and CEV people who aren't eligible for the vaccine will have to shield for even longer. And the vaccine doesn't prevent you from catching Covid, so some CEV people who are vaccinated don't feel safe taking public transport because even now hardly anyone is wearing a mask.

I'm happy to keep wearing a mask till Covid rates drop significantly, if it means someone who is CEV feels safer being able to get on the tube to go to work.

Nope. I think you are talking rubbish. Pessimistic and scaremongering.

No one is calling for another strict lockdown (though the months of lockdown could have been avoided if the government had reacted properly and not dragged their heels so much when the pandemic started) but basic things like keeping mask mandates don't affect people's ability to earn a living or access education

Ok but in order to stem the exponential growth, we would need to lock down or at least significantly increase restrictions wouldn’t we? Keeping masks may help but it won’t stop the current trajectory.

FYI a major hospital in Birmingham has had to cancel all operations (including crucial life saving transplant operations) because they are so overwhelmed with Covid patients.

I know someone who had a stroke in May 2020, hasn't been seen by a doctor, and won't be seen until at least March 2022 because the neurology clinic is entirely phone-only and not seeing patients face to face at all and there's a 9 month wait just for a phone call.

People who act like this is just a flu we need to learn to live with and that with vaccinations (never mind that huge swathes of the population are not vaccinated) Covid is no longer a big deal - hope you don't need to use the NHS any time soon!

Pessimistic and scaremongering.

More than 50,000 new cases every single day.

On average fifty deaths PER DAY.

One of the highest if not the highest death rate in Europe.

Ok but in order to stem the exponential growth, we would need to lock down or at least significantly increase restrictions wouldn’t we? Keeping masks may help but it won’t stop the current trajectory.

Keeping a level of restrictions - masks, venue capacity limits, etc - plus the natural help we’ll get from school holidays would help to keep more of a lid on this and reduce the risk of absolutely mental growth rates while we get more vaccinations done.

I think it was James Ward who did a great Twitter thread on the degree and duration of the exit wave due to herd immunity at high infection levels vs lower infection levels - it was striking.

It’s very unclear whether current vaccine rates are due to supply or demand - if the latter I’d also be in favour of incentives for those for whom not being vaccinated isn’t a conscious choice but the hassle factor is too high. Basically for entry to gigs, sporting matches or whatever - it’s double vax or a lateral flow. So there’s still choice, but there’s an incentive there.

For those thinking a double vax offers full protection think again . My son was double vax well before catching it , passed it to his girlfriend too. Whilst she has recovered, he is still ill : breathless , headaches, loss of taste and smell . More than 2 weeks later. He is 26 , no underlying conditions.

twitter.com/jamesward73/status/1413834989209272321?s=21

Is it this thread? I agree it’s really interesting. I agree that measures such as masks are a good idea to keep at the moment (I know they’re tricky for some people but we are in an extreme situation).

He supports opening up now though. I suppose I just recognise that unless we move back towards a lockdown (which I don’t think there is much appetite for), covid rates are going to soar, and hospitalisation are going to rise. Doing so more cautiously is all well and good and I’m all for better mitigation measures, but that nuance is lacking from a lot of the discussion I’ve seen which amounts to cases and hospitalisation are rising plus long covid so the government is mad to open up.

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney

For those thinking a double vax offers full protection think again . My son was double vax well before catching it , passed it to his girlfriend too. Whilst she has recovered, he is still ill : breathless , headaches, loss of taste and smell . More than 2 weeks later. He is 26 , no underlying conditions.

Who thinks double jab equals full protection though? It was never going to.

I’m sorry about your son and hope he recovers soon

For those thinking a double vax offers full protection think again .

Literally no one with any sense or reading ability thinks that.

But thank you for your contribution.

@ChocBeforeCock No, and I can't find the actual bastarding thread I'm thinking of so it must have been someone else! Now trawling my likes to see if it's in there...

That JW thread is so interesting though. He supports opening up but with greater baseline mitigation measures than the government's 'ah, it's up to you' shrug, along with vax to 12-17s which is probably pretty close to where I fall. I don't want to see another lockdown but keeping some mitigations in place while we get to more folks double vaxxed seems sensible to me.