It takes a village to raise a child?

[newmummy21]

Bear with me. I'm extremely sleep deprived and mentally and emotionally worn down.

How do you cope with a new baby when you have no "village"? Our baby is almost 3 months and we are on our knees. We have no family help - we are just an exhausted 2 man team. We speak to each other like we hate each other most days (not all... but it's a LOT). It's a constant game of oneupmanship - "I had less sleep than you" / "you had 5 minutes longer in the shower than I did"... etc.

I kid you not, yesterday I started an argument with him because he had a shower that lasted five minutes longer than mine, and this isn't "fair". 🙈

To listen to us most days, you'd think we were sworn enemies. Yet pre baby, we were the best of friends and very strong in our relationship. I am so sad about where this has gone and if it will ever come back. 😥

So my questions are - at what point do you stop wanting to kill each other after a baby? At what point do you get any semblance of your pre baby relationship back? And are we finding it harder because we have no village to help us? Or would most couples be like this post baby?

Thanks for any thoughts

I honestly think parents who claim having a baby didn’t change their life that much are either lying because they’re (understandably) cowed by the enormous social pressure to present motherhood as a state of perfect grace

This

I’m so jealous of all the posters who have hands on GPs nearby. I’m in the OP’s boat - we have no help at all as our families live hundreds of miles away. I’m at home all day with a 15 month old (we can’t afford nursery either) and it’s soooo tough!

It doesn't "take" a village because what about the people who are genuinely isolated. But by God it helps to have a decent one. It isn't about childcare - DS was a poorly baby, no one had him until he was maybe 3 and then 2 hours between feeds somewhere local. Now there's twins too, ha no chance. DM have the twins for 30 minutes and will do once a week when she can but not all 3.
But I have friends I can message when it's shit, who will meet up for coffee and a moan, or with the kids, who will chase my kids whilst I grab food, family who will meet so the kids can play together and with whom I've learnt from their own experiences. Friends and family who came to visit over months and months of hospitalisation, who came when the twins were young to clean and make me a meal, even if just one day. I couldn't imagine doing it without anyone to turn to for advice or a moan or a laugh

Ignore the contradictory comments from a couple of posters, having a baby is hard! It's understandable that many women struggle, especially without any support.

Some babies are so much easier than others, I have one of each and can see the difference.

It's tough if you aren't getting any sleep, and exclusively breastfeeding can be tough sometimes. I combi-fed mine and it was much easier as I didn't have a great milk supply and I could stop supplementing pumping to boost the supply as it was killing me. I was doing it all with the second baby as my DH was looking after our first son whilst I mostly looked after the baby. But because he was fuller and slept better, I was able to manage on my own whereas first time around I struggled. I wanted to breastfeed, however after struggling so much with first baby, I wanted to do what was easier to enjoy the baby and have more time for my older son and I didn't mind risking my milk supply dropping if it meant it was easier for the whole family.

Practical things to help:
Online shopping - so much easier
Dishwasher - if you don't have one already, get one
Tumble drier - needed in the winter
Easy meals
Easy fruit for snacks - to keep you and DH healthy
Multivitamins - esp if you are breastfeeding, it depletes your iron and that can make you tired, cause low moods and affects milk supply - if you lost a lot of blood at birth it's more likely

Routines can help, if that's your sort of thing? Don't stress if routines don't work for you, they aren't for everyone and not all babies are routine babies!

Basically, do everything the easy way. If there's a hard way and an easy way, pick the easy way! First baby I picked the "best" hard way and I was stressed and exhausted. Second baby I picked the easy way and we are all so much happier.

Young babies don't need much, just milk every 2 or 3 hours all through the night and then holding upright because of their reflux or convincing to swallow the colic medicine, a clean bed if you forget about the reflux, cuddles at 3 am because they don't understand it's night... clean nappies which they poo in the second a clean one is on, or wait until it's off, or just poonami up their back and being kept warm which means refusing to be put in the cot without Screaming the house down and you don't want to cosleep because you read all the safe sleep stuff.

I have a very laid back approach which probably helped as does a laid back baby, a non-,traumatic labour, no medical issues, a singleton, no PND etc and breastfed both so no bottles to deal with which seem to be very hard to manage when I've stayed with friends which is a luxury lots of women don't get because their milk doesn't come in, they don't have or can't afford proper breastfeed support, baby has tongue tie etx

@newmummy21 I want to share something that I read on here 3.5 years ago, when my DD was a newborn. I copied and pasted and read it again and again because it resonated so strongly with me. For context the OP there was a bloke not understanding why his wife was resentful iirc.

“It all sounds boringly normal tbh. Having a baby and feeling trapped in the home, being exhausted and resentful of the person who gets to leave and carry on with normal life, feeling as though you are doing everything... it's having a baby 101. None of this shit is even touched on by the glossy mum and baby mags, or if it is, it's pathologists and called PND and medicated.

The absolute truth is, having a baby is isolating, bastatdingbastarding hard work, and it never ever ends. If you are in a marriage with the right person, who is genuinely pulling their weight and understanding what an absolute mind fuck it is, you can usually grit your teeth and get through the first five years without divorcing. But that means the partner actually has to understand that you spend six hours a day feeding unable to move, and six hours a day crying because you are trying to get the baby to go to sleep, and all day every day longing to get out of the house.

Are you getting up in the night? How many times is your baby waking? Are you coming in from work and taking over the baby for an hour or two (completely) so that do can leave the house, go anywhere to reduce the cabin fever, or just sleep? Is she getting a few weekends to just disappear and leave you with your child, and go and stay with friends?

Her feelings are quite normal. Most women don't act on them (they frankly don't have the time or the energy as baby care is so exhausting) and marriages scrape by. Both of you understanding that would go a long way to getting through this together. It's easy to believe that other couples are having a fabulous rosy time and feel even more isolated, but this period is seriously hard work, especially for 21st century mamas who have been told they don't need feminism because they are completely equal to men.
Then you have a baby and suddenly you realise you have been fed an absolute lie. Your job is to keep the baby alive and your male partner goes out to work. His life carries on as normal (with the extra kudos of having sired offspring and collected a few adornments to his success story) and the wife's world has reduced to four walls and a baby.
Women get through this a number of ways. They grit their teeth and drag themselves throu (usually by ensuring they get out of the house every single day), they find childcare and go back to work, or they realise that what they are feeling is beyond the normal grim stage and see their gp or HV for advice about PND.

In case you are at all concerned about my cynicism, I've had three kids and been happily married for 19 years. And have absolutely felt the same way as your wife after every single baby, for at least the first year. Once they start walking and talking, it's less traumatic. Fortunately, dh and I were teeth gritters.

Of course, there is the smallest chance (infinitesimal) that this isn't anything to do with having had a baby and her whole life changing (like, seriously, every single facet is no longer about her). In which case, she's still better off co-parenting with you to get through the baby years, with the understanding that you are co-pRenting. And then you can both sort out the new world order, custody, housing, and agree an amicable separation in time.“

From @theancientmarinader

Bullshit to anyone who says it doesn’t take a village, and fuck off to anyone making the OP feel bad like she’s blaming her baby.

@newmummy21 this is absolutely normal, I’ve gone through it twice now. And it does get better, and I find it correlates to how much sleep you get. So as baby sleeps more then things return slowly back to more normal. Absolutely see your GP if you think it will help, but don’t let people tell you that this isn’t normal. You’re grieving the end of your old life and coping with an extremely difficult new one.

I have family and friends around me, but the biggest support has been my MN baby groups both times. 5 and 2 years on respectively and we still talk daily. Even though it’s mainly been virtual support just having people that understand what I’m going through and say they’re going through it to was a huge thing for my mental health post partum.

2 years on from our youngest and there are still days I resent how little my husbands life has changed but overall we are the same couple we we’re pre kids. Just a bit older and more knackered.

Hold on OP it will get better x

@EssentialHummus @MynameisJune

Thank you both - your recent replies are very helpful indeed

I wouldn't assume the perfect mothers are all that perfect tbh in the very early days I had an answer for everything! Every problem with a baby I had a solution- not because I was a perfect mother but because my anxiety and inability to cope meant I looked up every bloody thing. Unfortunately my babies read different books to me and I did not cope very well at all. It is very hard and you are doing great. My dh is lovely but he never gave me that validation either. But in all honesty I don't think men can ever truly understand. I had no idea until I had my first baby and I am a woman. How could they?

Awe OP- we had a village to raise our child- that’s where our problems came from. DH didn’t want it- I resented him for not letting the baby go to others- we argued and I’m sure we didn’t actually like each other for a good amount of time.
I think that having a baby can just bring out such different views, I also believe that DH suffered from a great amount of anxiety (or what some people call post natal depression for men).

It’s such a massive event and change in people’s lives. I very much felt the resentment like you (I had been through the mill and he should be more supportive) but he had his own stuff going on too.

The only thing I could suggest is taking time each week to talk (non judgementally) about your feelings.

Each person gets a certain amount of time to talk while the other can’t interrupt and just has to listen- no blame- just using the tag line” I feel- I.e. when you do such and such… I feel like…”

Then see if you can resolve one thing for each other, each week.

We really muddled through the first few years with lots of anger and hate(it’s probably why we only had one child) but are definitely stronger now than ever. I’m glad we didn’t split (although I felt like it many times those first few years- I hated him sometimes)

It does get easier and we have a lovely life now and I’m so glad we are a team once again.

Good luck to you- I hope you can figure out this hard time (if that’s what you want) and that you can get through it together and come out stronger.

It’s also defin good to talk- either to people in RL or on a forum like this- it makes you realise you are not alone.

I posted at the start of the thread op and just managed to come back and catch up and honestly, if I had other mums telling me this at the start I would have been so grateful like you but I was too scared to post and ask back then if it was normal. I have several nieces and nephews, in the double digits the amount of them ( Xmas is expensive lol! ) but when I look back at my sisters and brothers they all portrayed that everything was perfect. The perfect family unit, the perfect babies that slept through from 6 weeks, always had their hair done never out of place whenever I visited, I honestly just expected it to be the same for me the only person that said this is going to be hard was my 89yo grandmother but she also said, once you get through those first few months pet, it gets easier.

I think that’s the problem with society, everything is made out to be perfect so when it’s not for you, you feel like your doing something wrong which is not the case at all going by this thread and by my experience too. I’m not saying it’s not for some people but honestly, it has made me feel reading this thread that I’m not alone and you aren’t too and this is a lot more common than we think it’s just never really spoken about openly.

Hope you feel better soon and take no notice of the ar$e posters who seem to have nothing better to do than to kick someone when they are feeling down, they will never change so don’t even give them the time of day x

I live quite a distance from my parents and my in laws have never been very hands on. I found my own village though and its benefitted my children so much.

My best friend who is more like an aunty to my kids, I met at music lessons. I've got friends from church, others I met at baby groups, some through support groups (my daughters are autistic) and some through school and nursery.

It will come and it will get easier as time goes on but it is possible to build your own village :)

Oh god yeah, it was so fucking tough for us when our two were born. It was literally just me and DH. We were ready to kill each other or get divorced.

I remember being stunned by the lack of people willing to help. I still am overcome with disappointment at how little help we had. My mother visited (we live abroad) for two weeks for each child. Expected to be entertainef whilst here, not that much baby care actually going on. That was it. DH'S family would sometimes come for a couple of hours in the afternoon, but not to help, really to see the baby and socialise I. E. More hosting and fucking cooking or whatever for us to do.

Absolutely brutal and I feel your pain.

You may not have much of a village around you, but on the plus side, you have a great ratio of 2 parents to 1 baby. That means you can tag team, which helps both of you. Obviously that doesn't mean you aren't knackered, but I found making a conscious effort to thank my lucky stars that I only had one baby really helped 🙂

Until I had a second, and then it's one each, and the knackeredness goes up a few notches.

Like most people, I've done the bickering when tired and the competitive tiredness things, and they just eat away at your happiness. We find it important to remember that tiredness isn't always linear - it's possible to be more tired on 5hrs sleep than 3hrs sleep, or to be functional after a terrible night but exhausted after a better one. Tired is tired, and to try to support eachother and find a way to look at eachother and each of your make sure the other person's needs are being met.

Ps: my husband is in with our 4yo who has been up twice this night so far. I'm awake as my 2yo had been unsettled on and off the last 2 hours, last woken by the 4yo. Both of us have work in the morning.

It’s so hard. I’d try reading “how not to hate your husband after kids”. My sister recommended it. My advice? Say thanks (even when you don’t mean it, men love praise). If hubby is great practically accept that you may need to look elsewhere for emotional support (my family are overseas so I do this on the phone) and don’t try to be perfect. Baby won’t remember any of this later on..

Just wanted to second what hallygore said. I realised we have built a village over the last 8 years. It just doesn't really include our families (with the honourable exception of our four lovely nieces who are so, so, patient with our SEN child). Maybe keep an open mind with this 'village' thing. Some of our friends have been absolutely terrific over the years. Some of yours will be too. Maybe ones you haven't even met yet. You are in fact building a village but it's early days so you can't see it yet.

Nobody really prepares you for the impact it has on your relationship. I was talking to a good friend about this recently. Her dd is 3.5 and she was saying she doesn't think her dh will want another child because of the impact it's had on their relationship. Our dc are 10 and 4 and I can definitely relate - even though we had a very easy first child. We've argued a lot about parenting styles over the years in particular. And sleep deprivation has you both walking around like zombies, snapping at one another. Your relationship does have to he pretty solid to withstand the pressure. Having the baby wasn't hard in my experience, having less time for each other was. And Covid has meant that there's been precious little space for "me time" too. Dh and I are desperate for a night out together again (unfortunately he's been very ill so not an option at the moment).

All I can say is that it does eventually get better and when your child stops being quite to utterly reliant on you, you have more time for one another again. It's a case of weathering the storm in the meantime. Please do try to focus on the joyful occasions too though - they are gone too soon. It sounds so contradictory, but when you have children you spend a lot of time waiting out their phases, wanting them to be more independent so you can get your life back and then suddenly they're starting reception and you regret feeling that way. Parenthood is a really funny thing, it changes you, and your relationship with others, in a way you never thought possible. I've never regretted having children, not for one minute, they're the world to me. But having them does tend to change your interactions with your partner, at least for a while.

We've argued a lot about parenting styles over the years in particular. And sleep deprivation has you both walking around like zombies, snapping at one another. Your relationship does have to he pretty solid to withstand the pressure. Having the baby wasn't hard in my experience, having less time for each other was.

I can relate - it's not necessarily having her that is making it hard. It's the fact we have neglected each other so much these past 3 months that we are virtual strangers just tag teaming day and night, snapping at each other.

I will say though that we did have a very strong relationship pre baby (I mentioned this in my OP). We were a fantastic "team" and best of friends. But we couldn't possibly have anticipated the impact of a baby, I suppose.

Here are two things that helped us

(1) rock, scissors, paper - to decide who does nappies / bath etc. Quick, easy, fair, avoids bickering about it

(2) remember that if you had an older child who needed your attention, then you wouldn't always be able to tend to the baby immediately. Sometimes, the baby would have to wait for 5 mins eg if you were bathing an older toddler. So, go and have that shower. If baby cries in their cot, so be it

It sounds as though you are at the end of your tether, but it will get easier when baby's sleep improves

That phrase means when they are being little shits when they are older I can tell them that as a random local and you won't bring a pitchfork to my house. Not that everyone is available to look after the kid

Yup. That is what I've always understood it to mean.

Those debating the meaning of the phrase in my title are entirely missing the point and aren't helping at all. Can I just clarify that this is not the point of this thread? I have interpreted the phrase in a way that makes sense to me (ie having no support network around us to offer morale / emotional support with baby) and applied it to my current situation (ie not getting along with my partner after a baby). It is this situation I am looking for support/experiences of. Thanks.

If I could I would edit the title to

"Not getting along with partner after baby - is this made harder when you have no support?"

If that helps people to understand where I'm coming from.

I'd say it was pretty normal tbh to be feeling this way with no support. Whilst I have my family around, we are essentially a two man team. We never get any offers of can we take DD out for a couple of hours or would DD like a sleepover. She's 3. We are constantly exhausted and on days today when she is poorly, I am the default parent. Trying to work and look after her. It's hard not to feel resentment.

If you were a great team before, I think you have to actively decide to still be one.

Your relationship with your partner feels like it can take a back seat just now, but it's the central one of your life. When your child(ren) move out you still need to be able to find your way back to each other. Don't let a tough 12 weeks derail everything.

I had three kids with a man who thought that childcare (and housework) was 'women's work'. I did nearly everything myself.
I coped by being proactive about getting them into a routine, right from birth really. They were FF from birth apart from the first, which made this easier.
I'm quite lucky that I can function well on 4-5 hours of sleep a night, with the odd cat nap during the day.