Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

I have no idea who would vote YABU OP. Wheelchair spaces on buses are just that. I’m sorry that people don’t respect that OP

Not all buggys actually fold down, so it’s possible they can’t. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to hold a wiggling baby on a bus as some of the drivers around here think they are formula one drivers

There are rules for the size mobility scooters must comply with, so perhaps there should be rules for buggies (size, folding etc)

@NeedingAGoodNap

Not all buggys actually fold down, so it’s possible they can’t. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to hold a wiggling baby on a bus as some of the drivers around here think they are formula one drivers

People have a choice about whether to get a folding buggy or not. Or use a sling etc. The OP doesn’t have a choice about using a wheelchair.

Nobody understands the issues wheelchair users face. People have a choice to do the right thing. When I was a young mum it was never expected to take a massive pram on a bus. I had a fold down buggy which went either beside me or on the luggage rack. Wheelchair users don't have a choice, they need to use a wheelchair. I think this debate was on Mumsnet before. What people do forget is disability is like chronic illness, it can happen to anyone at any time. I always thought Id be young and fit forever. How wrong I was.

@NeedingAGoodNap I've been a mum for over 14 years and have 4 children. I am yet to come across a pram that doesn't fold.
OP, people are selfish. If you are going to bd using public transport regulArly, surely you buy an easy to fold pram?

@NeedingAGoodNap

Not all buggys actually fold down, so it’s possible they can’t. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to hold a wiggling baby on a bus as some of the drivers around here think they are formula one drivers

But if you’re a regular bus user would you not think that it’s a good idea to buy a lightweight folding buggy? I know it might be that someone is taking the bus as a one-off because the car has broken down or something and they don’t have a folding buggy but that wouldn’t account for the number of times OP has seen those huge baby tanks on the bus.

Unfortunately I think the bus companies have some blame to bare for the attitude to this so it's not just selfish parents, I do think some just don't realise. Yes, they should do the decent thing anyway, but we all know that's not going to be the case with all of them.

IME, some of the signage isn't clear that the space on a bus is for a wheelchair user. Yes, buggies can use it, but only if it's not required by a wheelchair user. There's no 'first come, first served' absolute with this, wheelchair trumps buggy and that's it.

This has come up a few times over the years on here and sadly nothing seems to change.

It used to be that you choose buggy that suited your circumstances so if you had to travel by bus you had a light weight easily foldable buggy.
I actually had two the big 4x4 for country walks and when I had the car and the small, light easily folded for when I needed to travel on public transport, but both were inexpensive own brand buggies from a major baby store.

I'm of two minds on this one.

First off, if you're holding a baby how are you supposed to fold the buggy ? You don't have four arms...

Second, I have a double buggy because my children are very close together. It can fold but it's massive, so wouldn't be easily put away. And it's a massive hassle. I didn't choose this one for kicks and giggles, it was the only double model I found that fitted essential requirements.

Finally, shouldn't there be a space on buses for buggies ? Especially as there are more people with babies than people in wheelchairs. It would be great if both needs could be accomodated at the same time.

It is my understanding in London that if a wheelchair user needs to get in the bus you either fold your buggy or you get off and give way to the wheelchair user. The wheelchair user has the right of way. The bus drivers all know this and you should get them to enforce it. Wheelchair user definitely trumps a buggy. Babies/children and their respective 'pushers' don't need a buggy, can't say the same of a wheelchair user. To clarify, I had 3 children under 3 (you can imagine the size of my buggy) and used buses a lot in London and I often had to give way to a wheelchair user and I did so with no resentment and believe me it was often deeply inconvenient!

@Marty13

I'm of two minds on this one.

First off, if you're holding a baby how are you supposed to fold the buggy ? You don't have four arms...

Second, I have a double buggy because my children are very close together. It can fold but it's massive, so wouldn't be easily put away. And it's a massive hassle. I didn't choose this one for kicks and giggles, it was the only double model I found that fitted essential requirements.

Finally, shouldn't there be a space on buses for buggies ? Especially as there are more people with babies than people in wheelchairs. It would be great if both needs could be accomodated at the same time.

And its a massive hassle?! Try being a wheelchair user. You chose to have 2 children close together. A wheelchair user didn't choose to have to rely on a wheelchair. Put one in a sling and one in a fold down buggy if you are using the bus.

I have twins and live in London. This is why I can’t get the bus. For those saying you choose to have children together, yes, but I didn’t order twins.
With my singleton I got off the bus more than once to make way for a wheelchair user.

I hate these threads. They always turn into a bunfight between wheelchair users and buggy users. The bus companies are the ones at fault for not having better designed busses.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/bus-drivers-can-now-refuse-move-if-mums-prams-dont-give-their-spaces-wheelchairs-607202

This gentleman went to the Supreme Court a few years ago. The ruling is clear, buggies should move and bus drivers can refuse to move if they don’t.

They are selfish idiots who lack imagination OP. They have options that you don't and they only have to put up with the inconvenience of folding a buggy on the bus for a few years.

Parents who want a guaranteed buggy space on the buses are free to start campaigning for such. Just like the wheelchair users did to ensure that they have ONE space on a bus they can use, if no other wheelchair user needs it.

I would have to get off the bus (annoying but I'm not going to begrudge doing it for someone in a wheel chair). I wouldn't be able to hold dd whilst removing the seat off of the frame (need two hands), the seat doesn't fold flat so I'd have to put that in the shopping bag area, fold the frame and then sit down with a baby who would be determined to escape me. Also my baby takes a long time to fall asleep during the day so there's no way I'd be waking her. So I'd just leave the bus.
However, I got on the bus yesterday and there was already a wheel chair user on board. There was more than enough room for the two of us. There are designated 'buggy zones' Separate from wheel chair spaces on most buses round here. Which is great, it's important to cater for both.

I'm physically disabled and there's no way I could fold down a buggy, hold a baby and shopping all at the one time and then set it all back up again by my self. So where do you go in that situation?

I always got off for wheelchair users, apart from one occasion when the man demonstrated that he could fit and told me not to move. I have a friend who's a wheelchair user and just refuses to take the bus, as she's had bus drivers drive straight past her before and she needs to get to work.

Surely if you can't fold a buggy you just get off. I always did.

Some newer buses have a buggy space and a wheelchair space, so space for both. I think that’s the way forward.

If you can’t fold the pram for a wheelchair user, you just get off and walk or wait for the next bus.

I kept wet weather gear under my pram for those days it unexpectedly poured.

The space on buses is for wheelchairs. If you can't fold your buggy up for any reason so that a wheelchair user can board, you get off the bus.

Disabled people campaigned for years for the spaces. If buggy users want dedicated space, campaign for it.

Where I live some buses are every hour and, pre-covid, regularly had mums on with toddlers and buggies hanging with shopping. Only once have I seen a problem where the mum refused/couldn't physically collapse the buggy to let a wheelchair user on and the driver eventually ordered her off the bus. I felt very sorry for her (an hour to wait) but it was the right decision. Most times other passengers help by holding shopping bags (or even baby!) until everyone has been accommodated but this mum wasn't having it. A wheelchair user must always take precedence