Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

@Hardbackwriter

I have always wondered - if you have to get off the bus because you have a buggy that won't fold down can you then use your ticket for the next bus that comes or do you have to buy a new one?

You should be able to get a transfer ticket from the driver (assuming you’re able to squeeze back through to the front of the bus to ask for one)

@romdowa

I'm physically disabled and there's no way I could fold down a buggy, hold a baby and shopping all at the one time and then set it all back up again by my self. So where do you go in that situation?

In my experience the waiting wheelchair user was told that the space was occupied by a disabled parent (I’ve been both people in this situation).

On our buses wheelchair uses take priority.Ive seen drivers insist buggies are folded to let a wheelchair on and if that's not possible making the buggie owner get off the bus to catch another.S Yorkshire

I know what you mean Grey, used to do the same when buses still had steps.

Fuck having 4 arms, must have had about 20 the way some people carry on about it being impossible

[quote supersonicginandtonic]@NeedingAGoodNap I've been a mum for over 14 years and have 4 children. I am yet to come across a pram that doesn't fold.
OP, people are selfish. If you are going to bd using public transport regulArly, surely you buy an easy to fold pram? [/quote]
When you're on your own with bags of shopping, a newborn, an older baby and 2 toddlers, it's not easy to fold a pram.

I'm actually a bit surprised that it's an issue currently because around me the buses are all essentially running near empty - glad to know that this isn't the case everywhere as I've been feeling gloomy about their future prospects...

I have always just got off the bus and waited for the next one as I thought it was very clear wheelchair users have priority.

@Livingtothefull

I have to say that I am deeply disappointed in the number of people who have voted that the Op IBU. Disappointed but not a bit surprised as I have had enough experiences to know those attitudes are widespread. To be quite frank though, their selfishness is just beyond me. So to address them:

I was arguing and contributing to threads like this 10 years ago about the same difficulties I had on public transport with DS in his wheelchair. And here I am all these years later doing the same. You see that is the difference between wheelchairs and buggies; you have the inconvenience of managing a buggy for a few short years whereas a wheelchair is very often for life. Once your children are older you will have moved on and it will no longer be an issue to you; you won't even bother reading threads like this. But people like my DS will still be dealing with the selfishness of the next generations of buggy users.

Except that we very rarely travel on public transport these days; I just can't bear the aggro and upset involved in trying to access the space that my DS is legally entitled to when his rights are often not respected and rarely enforced. So congratulations you've won.

The aggro is a common reason why few wheelchair users bother with public transport, and rarely go out. Which was the whole point, to give them a way to go out about other than unaffordable taxis.

You would think after the past year and all the threads about the concerns of the vulnerable, people would be more understanding of the difficulties faced.

As a buggy user, I've always thought the position was quite clear... wheelchairs have priority. So you fold down the buggy or get off the bus. Can't imagine having the front to tell a wheelchair user they couldn't get on the bus... they have enough to contend with!

I do have a slight issue with the fact that drivers won't wait while you do this but drive off as soon as they can. I remember trying to fold down my buggy in the aisle (having vacated the buggy space) while holding my little baby under one arm and a bag in the other arm while the bus drove around a corner. I was slammed into the side of the bus but luckily the baby was OK as I managed to protect him. After that, I always got off to wait for the next bus and took a taxi or allowed extra time if we were in a hurry to go somewhere (like a hospital appointment).

Selfishness, plain & simple. Plus the bus driver should be enforcing it.

When you're on your own with bags of shopping, a newborn, an older baby and 2 toddlers, it's not easy to fold a pram.

It's definitely not easy, but you have to be grateful you are not disabled and you CAN do things that are difficult.

My experience is that a big part of the bus needs to work together as a pushchair user you get out of your place and into someone else's place and they shuffle into another place. IME people have been quite accommodating. An elderly lady had to move so a nice guy gave her his seat

There used to be a rule that buggies had to be folded. Not sure when this was ditched but it made much more sense. Buggies are huge these days with more emphasis on brand and style than practicality.

My dad is a bus driver and the abuse he receives from people is disgusting. People refuse to move (and a lot of the time, pay anything to travel), then get aggressive, which results in the police having to be called, which in turn makes the bus late and people having even more to grumble about.
He's also been run into by an electric wheelchair while he was asking someone with a buggy to move, but the wheelchair user refused to wait and drove it at him.
People's attitudes lately seem to stink and it's got much worse through Covid. So much so he's retiring early even though he can't afford to.
Getting spat at, threatened with knives etc is becoming a daily occurrence (and we don't live in a city or a 'dodgy' area).
He's also said that a lot of the new driver's attitudes are shit too. They don't care about the job as they're only using it to get a free bus licence so they can move on to another job. Or they're only there because they can't find another job.

You should also be aware that drivers' every move is watched on camera and their driving skills are monitored. If they aren't supposed to intervene and they're seen doing so on camera, they'll be sacked.

@Sirzy

Parents who want a guaranteed buggy space on the buses are free to start campaigning for such. Just like the wheelchair users did to ensure that they have ONE space on a bus they can use, if no other wheelchair user needs it.

I completely agree with this! I remember the campaigns for better provisions for people with disabilities:-disabled people's loos, spaces on buses and trains, just a general recognition that people who need to use a wheelchair sometimes need special provisions made for them in order to achieve anything remotely approaching equality with non-wheelchair users.

These basic rights were fought for hard. It really boils my piss when entitled, selfish people barge a bloody great pram onto a bus and plonk it in the wheelchair space, then stubbornly refuse to move when a disabled person needs to use the space designated for wheelchair users!

If parents want to take buggies and prams onto buses, fine, they can do that if there is an unoccupied wheelchair space available. But they must accept that they will have to either get off the bus or fold the buggy and move to another seat in the event that a wheelchair-user needs the space.

I've only once seen a buggy user refuse to move for a wheelchair (though I'm sure it happens frequently) and the driver refused to move the bus until the buggy was taken off. Same as they do when people get on and don't pay. Drivers are not powerless.

@LondonSouth28

It is my understanding in London that if a wheelchair user needs to get in the bus you either fold your buggy or you get off and give way to the wheelchair user. The wheelchair user has the right of way. The bus drivers all know this and you should get them to enforce it. Wheelchair user definitely trumps a buggy. Babies/children and their respective 'pushers' don't need a buggy, can't say the same of a wheelchair user. To clarify, I had 3 children under 3 (you can imagine the size of my buggy) and used buses a lot in London and I often had to give way to a wheelchair user and I did so with no resentment and believe me it was often deeply inconvenient!

Exactly this. The wheelchair space is available for others to use unless and until a wheelchair user needs it, at which point the buggy/suitcase/fish tank/whatever should be moved elsewhere (or off the bus entirely if there is no space for it). I can't see any justification for any other way.

Of course wheelchair users should have priority. I’ve used buggies on London buses for four years and always get off if a wheelchair user gets on (has only happened twice).

However, I do want to say that it’s not necessarily the case that those that don’t are totally selfish twats. They’re probably just really stressed, sleep deprived, desperate to get home and not making good decisions. There also the added time pressure with everyone wanting the bus to get going again which makes it even more stressful.

Having said that, my experience is that people have always been very kind and helpful to me when I’m travelling with my children. From reading these posts it seems the same kindness is not always extended to wheelchair users and that’s not good enough.

Agree that we should start a campaign for better provision for buggies on buses - great to hear that some buses already have this!

I used to get the same bus to and from work every day and there was a wheelchair user who used the bus the same times as me every day, the bus drivers knew him and always kept the space clear for him and wouldn’t let buggy’s on as they knew they would have to pick him up.

I remember being on a bus once and there was 2 ladies with prams in the wheelchair section and there was a wheelchair user wanting to get on, the bus driver asked them to fold their prams but they refused even though he offered to help them and they were getting horrible so he kicked them off the bus, he wasn’t taking any shit it’s a shame most drivers won’t deal with the aggro.

And there are alternatives to having loads of shopping to also contend with. Home delivery or a back back. Never mind how much shopping a decent baby bag can hold.

I'm wondering if the lack of steps is messing with people's common sense.

That’s a really good idea. I wonder why they don’t, as it gives all the options.

Not great in a crash though.

I've said this before, if buggies were charged £10 to travel unfolded I wonder how many people would find out they could actually fold a buggy?

My kids are older now but that just reminds us how temporary the situation is for buggies.

If you use the bus regularly instead of buying a massive tank of a pram buy a cheaper one and an umbrella fold buggy for the bus. Do what you can to avoid the situation. Get shopping delivered or pay a friend petrol money to take you by car or something. They aren't our spaces they are on temporary loan until those who are priority users need them.

Yeah it sucks sometimes having to get off the bus early and walk in the rain. Yeah you have to kinda force the situation sometimes ( you should have seen the bus drivers face when I shoved the baby in his hands )

But before you know it your kid is at pre school ajd the worst is over. Disabilities are fir life. And disabled people have jobs they need to get to too.

There has never been campaign for parents that says look great easy use bus but plan for a Pushchair that can fold. If they said in 2y time no prams that can’t fold it would solve problem. Travel sites would update for tourists like you need x travel card and oh by the way can’t take non folding pram.

Yes ok exceptions for some people with multiple babies but it’s should be exception not the average user.

Like PP said I’ve had this for 20y and another 30? To go lucky me.

Mums have got it much easier on public transport nowadays (I’m not saying it’s a bad thing btw) when my two were babies in the 80’s you had to take baby out the buggie, fold buggie, hold baby, shopping and toddlers hand and try to get on the bus, bloody nightmare!

.
Rather than moaning on here about the unfairness of having to fold and hold, nothing stopping anyone creating one of those gov petitions right this minute. And to garner some support post on this site. Who knows might also get picked up by one of the lazy
reporters.

I totally agree. I think bus drivers need to be firmer about it but also that people should help the parent (or whoever it is) with the buggy.

I won't fold my child's buggy down for anyone OP. He had a right to that space, you just wouldn't think so to have a quick look

I'd explain if you're close enough to me but obviously can't if you're still outside the bus