Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

When my oldest dd was a baby I used the bus all the time. Fold up buggy. As I travelled off peak, there was always a bus full of people, usually older who were only too happy to hold the baby whilst I folded the buggy or fold the buggy for me, get shopping stowed etc.
There should not even be a question about it.

Yanbu , utterly selfish of those people. And they will still argue why they can't fold their buggy. As if the two are comparable. But the bus company needs to be very harsh in enforcing the rules.

I don't think that folding prams/buggies are the answer. When my DC were little, if I had to fold up the buggy, I would be taking up 2 or 3 times the space as the unfolded version as I would then need a seat, space to put all the shopping (I don't drive so can't take the car), space for the buggy, etc. Most buses in London don't have a luggage rack, so that's not an option and they don't have enough time in the timetable for someone to piss about for 5+ mins to do so and then later to put it all back together nor is there the physical space as they are normally already crowded without any space seats downstairs.

They really need to make more flexible space on buses. They seem to be getting less of it on the newer buses.

Obviously I just get off the bus if a wheelchair needs it. Sometimes I'm lucky that after some moving about we can both fit on.

I could fold a buggy with one hand while holding a baby, and sometimes another child in a sling. That’s the way the buggy was designed. I knew I’d be on public transport a lot, so it was essential it would be easily foldable with one hand.

Indeed @Aroundtheworldin80moves. Those saying "in London we..." have clearly not lived rurally.
We had a folding buggy from 6 weeks and never got a double buggy when DD came along. I did manage to fold it and carry it and toddler DS up 3 flights of stairs on holiday. I agree re get a suitable buggy and campaign for more spaces. Status prams don't belong on buses.

@maddening

I think all seats on the bus should.flip up so to make the space more multi purpose, it would allow the room to accommodate buggies in normal seating areas.

That’s a really good idea. I wonder why they don’t, as it gives all the options.

Yes some prams still take up same
Footprint but they are huge tank prams for luxury baby travel. But you should be advised that for a bus you need a small folding pushchair. Certainly these multi level double prams can’t be folded down, I seen mums make Point folding them down basically collapse on the spot and take up exactly same Room then look and do The “well I folded it what else do you expect me to do”

Mean while I “walk” everywhere all weathers and pay fortune for taxis if over 3miles as battery will not last that long.

It matters because I can stand at bus stop all day and every bus will have a pram. If you stood at bus stop all week you might see one wheelchair. When you have that level
Of stress every single time you just give up.

I’d say it’s particularly easy to travel by bus in London with a folding buggy, better than other places, as so many people do it. And at least the buses come by every few minutes, so if you miss one, it’s no big deal.

First off, if you're holding a baby how are you supposed to fold the buggy ? You don't have four arms...

You don't need 4 arms, you make sure you buy a buggy that folds easily.

When we use the bus there is always someone say in the buggy bay with a shopping trolley . If this happens we go to the wheelchair bay but if someone gets on in a wheelchair (I can't fold the buggy as it comes off in two parts and no where to store it on the bus) I'll get off the bus so the wheelchair user can get on.

Most of the time the wheelchair users are friendly enough and let me use the end bit as there is always space for the pushchair and for me to stand.

Sat*

"maddening

I think all seats on the bus should.flip up so to make the space more multi purpose, it would allow the room to accommodate buggies in normal seating areas."

Excellent idea!

Leave the wheelchair bay free and secure but make other chairs, at least on the lower level before the steps to the back, folding.

I think I'd much prefer that any way as it seems like it would hold buggys and pushchairs more stable.

Yanbu. WC users should take priority.

where I live mean only two buggies allowed on the bus so there's always room for a wheelchair

I wish the buses were like that around here. It’s room for two buggies OR a wheelchair. Half the time you wait for 3 buses just to get a buggy on because they’re already full of buggies.

Wish I was one of those Mum’s that found it super easy to juggle a newborn, a toddler, the shopping and manage to get the pram folded down. And then back up again.

And no, I couldn’t always use a sling due to recovering from c section and then ongoing back problems.

I just got off the bus for a wheelchair user instead. It sucks but it is what it is until the buses become more accessible for all users.

This is the reason I didn't use the bus with a pram until DD was old enough to stand or sit when I had to fold the umbrella buggy.

I had a Bugaboo Cameleon, impossible to properly fold as you need to dismantle it into two parts. Yes, it was my choice which pram I bought but I think comfort and long-lastiness is also important, not just how small it can be folded.

In my opinion if the government wish is that people are using more. public transport than they have to make adjustments. like more double-decker. busses with the lower part exclusively standing/buggy/wheelchair.

I either had to walk (which I did a lot, even in bad weather) or take the car. Lots of people don't drive and have babies and rely on busses.

Of course the person using the wheelchair has to take priority. But for this reason I always, always use the sling when getting the bus when travelling with a baby because I don't fully understand where a pram with a carrycot (which is what I see nearly everyone use with a little baby) is actually supposed to be put away given that buses don't have luggage racks any more. It's a lot easier with a toddler as then you can just have a stroller.

I have always wondered - if you have to get off the bus because you have a buggy that won't fold down can you then use your ticket for the next bus that comes or do you have to buy a new one?

I thought the bus driver had the authority to demand parents to fold their buggies or get out of the bus you should have talked to the bus driver. Maybe get their name (and then never do anything about it....) and that might get them to do their duty

@Marty13

I'm of two minds on this one.

First off, if you're holding a baby how are you supposed to fold the buggy ? You don't have four arms...

Second, I have a double buggy because my children are very close together. It can fold but it's massive, so wouldn't be easily put away. And it's a massive hassle. I didn't choose this one for kicks and giggles, it was the only double model I found that fitted essential requirements.

Finally, shouldn't there be a space on buses for buggies ? Especially as there are more people with babies than people in wheelchairs. It would be great if both needs could be accomodated at the same time.

Double duggy user in here ;) I had to ask the people off the front seats near the door to get off so I could slot the pushchair there with the kids in the seats with their legs on top of the pushchair, does that make sense?

Shuffle shuffle!

Laziness is why.Don't wait in the rain op ask the driver to ensure there is room for you.it's awful that anyone would not move for you.💐

Having the lower deck on a bus as flip seats would not resolve it. The spaces would then be full of people buying the massive, heavy, not designed for public transport buggies. But if you think it's a good idea, campaign for it.

Before wheelchair users campaigned for the space, parents used to think about transport when buying buggies, including double ones, knowing that to get on/off they would have to fold and carry everything on.

The issue is not bus companies. It's the selfish twats that buy the buggies. Its the selfish twats that argue with drivers because they are dense to understand the differences in having a child and having mobility issues. Then of course you have the utter tools that argue when they see a pushchair in the space with a child who has a disability. When the spaces were first introduced, buggies weren't allowed on, even if there was heavy medical equipment under the seat.

I have to say that I am deeply disappointed in the number of people who have voted that the Op IBU. Disappointed but not a bit surprised as I have had enough experiences to know those attitudes are widespread. To be quite frank though, their selfishness is just beyond me. So to address them:

I was arguing and contributing to threads like this 10 years ago about the same difficulties I had on public transport with DS in his wheelchair. And here I am all these years later doing the same. You see that is the difference between wheelchairs and buggies; you have the inconvenience of managing a buggy for a few short years whereas a wheelchair is very often for life. Once your children are older you will have moved on and it will no longer be an issue to you; you won't even bother reading threads like this. But people like my DS will still be dealing with the selfishness of the next generations of buggy users.

Except that we very rarely travel on public transport these days; I just can't bear the aggro and upset involved in trying to access the space that my DS is legally entitled to when his rights are often not respected and rarely enforced. So congratulations you've won.

I've never not seen anyone with a pram move for a wheelchair user. I've also never not moved for a wheelchair user and I rely entirely on public transport. Luckily where I live, the double decker buses have a designated pushchair zone as well. Unfortunately I think it just depends on the morals of the people on the bus at the time which is shit for you OP - definitely get the driver involved. Drivers here order pram users to move if they haven't made moves quickly enough

@motogogo

To those who say they cannot fold their prams, 22 years ago I had a one hand fold pram, pretty sure they still exist, I managed many many times with my 2 and the double buggy until I got the disability certification when dd was 3 (minimum age they would give it). For my 2 it was side by side and reclined

It's not s standard but I personally would refuse ever buying one that isn't. And I have 3 pushchairs!!!