Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

Part of this problem is people (parents) mistakenly thinking their opinion matters.

Rules are rules. They apply to you.

If you don't like the rules (that give wheelchair users priority and may require you to get off a bus mid-journey, to let them on), then write to the bus company, start a campaign.

Don't take out your frustrations on other, more disadvantaged, bus users.

Speaking as a Bus Driver who does not drive like an F1 driver if I had a pushchair on my bus user who wouldn't fold the handbrake stays on and I won't move until space is made for the wheel chair user. Simple. It's in company policy and legislation. I have several regular wheel chair users and they are priority users of those spaces.

When my DS was in a buggy, I always either took him out and folded the buggy or if I had to, left the bus, when a wheelchair user got on. However one time I had a bus try to refuse me entry because there was a wheelchair user on board. I'd been waiting half an hour and he tried claiming that another bus was right behind him which I new was BS because I had seen this bus on the way out and no other bus had gone since. So I'd have been at least another half hour waiting.

I told him, no worries I'd fold the buggy and hold my son. And he still tried to refuse me entry. At the time DS had a broken leg and a full cast, which was the only reason I had him in the buggy that day. I ended up pointing out to him that he was refusing entry to a child in a cast for absolutely no practical reason. He let me on then, and I went in, folded the buggy put it in the luggage compartment and sat in a seat with my son in my arms. I have to admit that when I got off the bus, I told the driver that I hope he'd learned that there was reason to refuse entry to someone with a buggy if they were willing to fold it, and that I hoped he wouldn't make another person feel as awful as I did. And that it shouldn't have taken my son having an injury for him to relent.

@Gothichouse40

Nobody understands the issues wheelchair users face. People have a choice to do the right thing. When I was a young mum it was never expected to take a massive pram on a bus. I had a fold down buggy which went either beside me or on the luggage rack. Wheelchair users don't have a choice, they need to use a wheelchair. I think this debate was on Mumsnet before. What people do forget is disability is like chronic illness, it can happen to anyone at any time. I always thought Id be young and fit forever. How wrong I was.

Absolutely this!

When my DC were small, public transport was pretty inaccessible. So as a new mum who didn't drive and was reliant on buses, I made sure I had a sling to carry my baby in when he was small so I could also carry shopping etc, and as he got bigger and a bit too heavy for the sling (by about 6 months) I got a lightweight umbrella fold buggy that I could fold one handed which we would use for shopping trips. Even my full size buggy still folded flat, but as that was a 2 hander, I only used it if I had someone with me to hold DS and the shopping.

When I see parents now on public transport, most seem to have their babies in enormous prams they clearly could never fold down when needed. I've heard comments before about how buses are now 'pram accessible' - no, they're WHEELCHAIR accessible, the fact that also now allows you to bring your tank of a pram on board is by the by.

Having seen the struggles that friends in wheelchairs have just to get from A to B, I am appalled that anyone would ever feel entitled to occupy the wheelchair space on the bus with their pram. If you have too big a pram, and too much shopping to collapse it, then you can walk! Which is not an option for the wheelchair user.

@lottiegarbanzo Thank you for your kind words of sympathy. I didn't mean it to be taken as an attack on buggies, I'm sympathetic to the mums that are tired and want to get home.
I'm also tired, in pain and need a day to recover from a shopping trip and don't want to engage with hostile passengers. I use a small wheelchair on the bus so that I can fit in if there's only one buggy and one buggy can fit in with me. It shouldn't be an issue needing driver intervention.

You either get off, or 9 times out of ten there is actually room for a pram and a wheelchair, just meansthe pramgetting off gor a couple of mind while the wheelchair user gets on. Absolute nonsense about stopping prams on board that cant be folded.

@NeedingAGoodNap

Not all buggys actually fold down, so it’s possible they can’t. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to hold a wiggling baby on a bus as some of the drivers around here think they are formula one drivers

I assume you'd get off the bus then?

I use to have massive anxiety getting on the bus with a pram, especially when they were young babies, because I knew full well I would have to fold it down whilst holding the baby at the same time if a wheelchair user came on. It’s a difficult juggling act even with the lightweight easy folding prams. I’d have loved to wear a sling but our bus drivers are wannabe boy racers and I’ve toppled out of my seat several times just going around corners. I wouldn’t want to risk falling and crushing my baby.

Maybe there should be a rule where all prams must be folded down when you get on the bus but the driver has to stop and wait until you are sat down before they can start the bus again. I still maintain it’s hard to do when you have a newborn/very young baby though. Maybe those prams where the car seat fix to the pram would be another option?

I always think it would be helpful on these threads (which come up at least twice a year so unfortunately the problem doesn’t seem to be getting any better) if those who seem to have no problem getting on a bus and carrying lots of stuff/children and managing to fold a buggy could share their recommended pushchairs, particularly any that are suitable for a newborn but still easy to fold.

Most people buy their buggy before their first child is born. I’m sure I’m not alone in having bought some baby stuff that turned out not to be quite right for me. It’s really difficult to fully foresee what life with a baby will be like before they arrive, stuff like the practicalities of folding buggies on a moving bus can easily be overlooked.

Also, so much is made now of needing to have a newborn lie flat for 6 months in a pram and I think that leads to lots of people getting bit prams that can’t be folded in one piece. It’s another example of the wealth of conflicting advice for new parents.

I have a yo-yo that in theory is a one handed fold, but the bastard wheels always get in the way making it pretty impossible to do whilst holding a small child.

An no, I definitely would not go onto the bus with my youngest, leaving my eldest on the pavement next to a busy main road, and hand my baby to a complete random on the bus whilst I then went back to the pavement to get my eldest! There are lots of things parents used to do years ago that aren’t acceptable now!

(I do get off the bus if required to though).

I’d have loved to wear a sling but our bus drivers are wannabe boy racers and I’ve toppled out of my seat several times just going around corners. I wouldn’t want to risk falling and crushing my baby

Are people complaining about these bus drivers ? Pre child?

Maybe those prams where the car seat fix to the pram would be another option?

Newborns shouldn’t be in a car seat for any great length of time so not an option for very young babies either.

I think proms should be folded up on buses as standard practice. They’re just a nuisance And often stick out into the aisle. I have fortunately only once experienced a bus trip where we were delayed by someone who refused to vacate the wheelchair spot to allow a wheelchair user onto the bus. The driver refused to move until they did, but it took a lot emphasis from him and the other bus users to get through the skull of the pram owner. Some people are selfish. That’s the sad reality. To them, this is an inconvenience that they don’t want to bother with, but the wheelchair user is faced with access issues in so many ways every single day.

It shouldn't require intervention, no. People should behave decently, with consideration for others and awareness that rules apply to them.

I've seen enough of these threads over the years and enough real-life self-absorbed parent behaviour, to know what people think and how they behave though. Sadly, a significant minority of parents are not decent, considerate, rule-abiding people. Many are willfully ignorant and don't think through the impact of their behaviour on others.

I can and will say that. It's what I've seen. I'm not in any way suggesting that you should think as I do, or trying to speak for you. Of course not.

You sound lovely, considerate and thoughtful. I'm not always so nice!

If people were still using those big fuck off silver cross buggies then I could understand the difficulties with folding them, the shopping and everything else.

had a fold down buggy which went either beside me or on the luggage rack.

That's the problem. There are no luggage racks anymore! Well, not sure about other buses but ours are first bus and the newer buses and not one single one has a luggage rack so there is really no where to put your folded pushchair.

@jonastrotters I would always give the space to anyone who said they had a disabled child in the buggy. We all need to be reasonable.

@Whatwouldscullydo I definitely did. Before DS1 I was on a bus where a manic driver was whizzing around tight corners in a residential estate and a little old lady, who was very frail and had mobility issues, went flying off the front seat and went head first down the aisle. The driver just brushed it off and refused to stop until someone wanted to alight. Several people had to stop the bus and made calls to the bus depot there and then. I made a complaint when I got to the bus station. Got back on the same bus a couple of days later and it was the same driver. And that’s just one incident I reported. I don’t think the bus companies care unless they’re physically aggressive. I’ve heard from others that they’re hard push for drivers because they deal with so much abuse on a daily basis.

I've only been on the bus a few times when the space was needed (London) but always the driver made the announcement that the wheelchair space was needed and that people needed to vacate. I've seen someone get off with a buggy because of it. I'm shocked that this isn't enforced

How have they not been sued

Snap, I’ve also gotten off the bus with a pram because a wheelchair needed on. And witnesses bus drivers telling parents with buggies to get off of there’s a wheelchair

@romdowa

I'm physically disabled and there's no way I could fold down a buggy, hold a baby and shopping all at the one time and then set it all back up again by my self. So where do you go in that situation?

Off the bus and wait for the next one.

I totally agree. It’s just impossible to collapse a buggy with two children inside and nobody to hold/ carry the children. It reminds me of when I went through Manchester airport with a newborn and a mischievous two year old. They asked me to collapse the pram and I was travelling alone and was like well where am I supposed to put the baby, on the security belt ?? One of the ladies offered to help carry the baby and as I collapsed the pram, my toddler ran across the airport. Never to travel with a pushchair again ever again. And I completely agree that they should provide spaces for mothers and young children in pushchairs. As for the lady who said carry them in a sling, it’s clear she has no idea or had no children because slings stents for everybody, they’re only for the first few months- IF the mum wanted to have one. I used to have one and it’s one of the most useless things ever, but maybe that’s because I’m short. Plus what are they supposed to do after they’ve reached their destination? Have their sling on the front and their nappy bag with all the babies items like nappies and wipes on their back?

It always makes me so anxious when the pram space on the buses is taken and I have to go in the wheelchair bit. Granted, we now have a buggy but even so, I would take my big pram down if needed. As soon as the pram space is vacated, I move across. Its just common sense. Some people are just rude unfortunately

There are slings that can be used for much longer than a couple of months. The wrap type can easily hold a toddler even with a small petite mum.
There are also bags that have shoulder straps so they can be carried on the back.

@Desertexpat

I totally agree. It’s just impossible to collapse a buggy with two children inside and nobody to hold/ carry the children. It reminds me of when I went through Manchester airport with a newborn and a mischievous two year old. They asked me to collapse the pram and I was travelling alone and was like well where am I supposed to put the baby, on the security belt ?? One of the ladies offered to help carry the baby and as I collapsed the pram, my toddler ran across the airport. Never to travel with a pushchair again ever again. And I completely agree that they should provide spaces for mothers and young children in pushchairs. As for the lady who said carry them in a sling, it’s clear she has no idea or had no children because slings stents for everybody, they’re only for the first few months- IF the mum wanted to have one. I used to have one and it’s one of the most useless things ever, but maybe that’s because I’m short. Plus what are they supposed to do after they’ve reached their destination? Have their sling on the front and their nappy bag with all the babies items like nappies and wipes on their back?

That's exactly what I used to do. Sling on the front, rucksack on the back. Used various slings till DD was 2.5 and then I couldn't manage it any more. I'm short and also dyspraxic so it was occasionally a challenge but not really a problem most of the time - but I don't drive and travel a lot on public transport locally and nationally and couldn't be bothered with the faff of the pushchair.

That period when I couldn't carry her any more but she was too little to walk absolutely everywhere on a long journey was a challenge though.