Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

Where did I say I wouldn't? I said the space is for wheelchair users so not sure why you assume I wouldn't have got off the bus.

It can be amusing entering the bus with only passengers in the space who all back up to the side or front of the space. I just smile at them until they move out.

Seated passengers are great, offering me their seats which I politely decline

@Rosebel

Where did I say I wouldn't? I said the space is for wheelchair users so not sure why you assume I wouldn't have got off the bus.

I didn't say I thought you wouldn't...

@Rosebel literally said so you need to move out of the space so no need for the "you have to move!" @Biancadelrioisback

The thing is, people have stuff going on & people have a whole mix of reasons why they do what they do. It’s not black and white

But it is. Wheelchair use (including adapted buggies) trumps everything else.

(Thinks back to the o-l-d days when there were conductors on buses....) I had a baby & a dd2 who amongst other issues had severe dyspraxia & another child a little older. It wouldn't have been so bad but the bus driver was impatient & the only way of getting on bus was via steps - than you had to juggle rucksack on back baby in one arm checking older dc was safely on board & paying by cash & getting collapsed pushchair into luggage rack which was quite high - it was fun (not!) i was occasionally rescued by other helpful people - (this was usually, ironically, when we were going to dd physio in another town, but I still think wheel chair users need priority & when my dc where that young there was no wheelchair access on the buses.)

@mumwon

(Thinks back to the o-l-d days when there were conductors on buses....) I had a baby & a dd2 who amongst other issues had severe dyspraxia & another child a little older. It wouldn't have been so bad but the bus driver was impatient & the only way of getting on bus was via steps - than you had to juggle rucksack on back baby in one arm checking older dc was safely on board & paying by cash & getting collapsed pushchair into luggage rack which was quite high - it was fun (not!) i was occasionally rescued by other helpful people - (this was usually, ironically, when we were going to dd physio in another town, but I still think wheel chair users need priority & when my dc where that young there was no wheelchair access on the buses.)

Wheelchair access was fought for by disabled people for years and buggy users have become squatters. If they want buggy space they need to fight that battle and I for one will support it wholeheartedly

Maybe ppl with buggies should be told to fold them before coming on to bus. Then it change the culture and make it easier for wheelchair users.

That's a good idea and then they'd have to think carefully about which buggy to buy for the bus.

@Rosebel

I used to have a double buggy. I couldn't hold two children and fold the pushchair. Then again I think I only used it on the bus twice and there were no wheelchair users on the bus or waiting. Ultimately though they are for wheelchair users and people with pushchairs should give the space up. Another reason why it would be good to have conducters back on buses as they could tell parents to fold the buggy. Drivers are reluctant to do this as there is no back up support for them.

Just wait, the government are trying to take conductors off of trains. Anyone who needs assistance (disabled, elderly, or just plain vulnerable) won't stand a chance.

My experience as a driver, when wheel chair accessible came in we were told all buggies had to be foldable, no proper prams ( remember prams!) as they couldn't be folded. This was in the written rules. Within a couple of weeks a pram user was refused and was in the local paper with a compo face on. Rules were changed.

Since then law was changed and disabled have priority, but since there is no way a driver can know if someone is disabled, what are they supposed to do? How many threads on here mention invisible disabilities? Isn't it illegal to ask if someone is disabled?

Real prams don't seem to be a thing now, but you do get people who say they can't fold their buggie as it is broken. Or the buggie user might be disabled. People who are so selfish as to not want to move for a wheel chair are not above lying about a disability.

If the driver refused to move the bus and it turned out the buggie used was disabled, what then?

Mind the vast majority of people are decent.

4 kids and i use buses regularly. I always get off the bus unfortunately the same cant be said about other users. i remember when i just had dd and a wheelchair user was at the stop. The bus driver told him he needs to ask me nicely to move!!!

saying that my ds5 has a disabled buggy which i dont fold as he has a right to be in the space. i often get abuse from wheelchair users cos of it.

If a parent is Disabled they still don’t have the right to the wheelchair space. That would be silly it’s not a hidden disability space if you have a pram. Yes it’s hard if they have to get off the bus rather than fold their pram/hold their baby. But someone has to get off, in law the wheelchair holds trump card. The disabled mum who can’t bend will get on next bus.

A pushchair which works as a wheelchair is of course the same as a wheelchair. Don’t know how many parents would argue their non disabled child can’t possible be taken out and folded there are always some.

It’s really not complicated. When the rules are clear and still society as whole feels they can’t respect them and do their best to get around it really erodes practically the only thing wheelchair have that is just for them. And we not allowed have it in many peoples eyes.

it always amazes me how long these threads go on for. its a wheelchair space, for people in wheelchairs. so anyone else should move. (of course not children in wheelchair type buggies)
why would anyone not, a sleeping baby... not a wheelchair user.

It’s so depressing isn’t it.

A disabled mum who can’t fold pram may be inconvenienced for few short years then the pram will be gone. Wheelchair user…on to the next generation of entitled parents.

If the buggy user is disabled surely they should be sitting not standing with the buggy on the bus!

I realise I'm late to the thread and I understand (being disabled myself) that if a pram is taking up a wheelchair space they should move elsewhere on the bus/fold down but I don't understand why people think someone already on the bus should get off for someone who isn't? What if the first person has somewhere important to be on time to as well? For many people getting the bus is their only affordable option otherwise they would obviously do something else

Because it’s a space for wheelchairs.

Not for prams. Suitcases. Shopping or anything else.

Nobody should need to get off if the person who is using the space collapses the buggy and moves out of it. If they refuse to do that then yes they will need to leave.

Wheelchair users have ONE space on the bus they can use. They need to be in that space so they are safely anchored to travel.

@Anexschoolbusdriver

My experience as a driver, when wheel chair accessible came in we were told all buggies had to be foldable, no proper prams ( remember prams!) as they couldn't be folded. This was in the written rules. Within a couple of weeks a pram user was refused and was in the local paper with a compo face on. Rules were changed.

Since then law was changed and disabled have priority, but since there is no way a driver can know if someone is disabled, what are they supposed to do? How many threads on here mention invisible disabilities? Isn't it illegal to ask if someone is disabled?

Real prams don't seem to be a thing now, but you do get people who say they can't fold their buggie as it is broken. Or the buggie user might be disabled. People who are so selfish as to not want to move for a wheel chair are not above lying about a disability.

If the driver refused to move the bus and it turned out the buggie used was disabled, what then?

Mind the vast majority of people are decent.

Surely the fact it is a wheel chair space not disabled space is all the driver needs to know? My son is disabled he gets high rate care and mobility Dla due to severe mental impairment, he has a blue badge we have a mobility car, but he doesn't need to go in a wheel chair space on the bus because he's not in a wheelchair.

If the person with the buggy can move it or fold it they should.
Of course there is times they can't, my DS was in a buggy until 5 with sensory overload asd.
I would get off for the wc user not another buggy. I was blissfully unaware of buggy war on buses until I had a baby.
You'd get off for a wc and wait ages on a bus with a free buggy spaces
I'd have people shouting take him out he is huge and I'd have to explain he has autism etc or depending on their approach I'd tell them to MYOB.

I agree that wheelchair users should take priority. I do just want to say, though, that some people may be using the buggy like a rollator, to assist them with walking. I have EDS and used the buggy this way. But I'd still make way for a wheelchair user.

@Boonlark

I agree that wheelchair users should take priority. I do just want to say, though, that some people may be using the buggy like a rollator, to assist them with walking. I have EDS and used the buggy this way. But I'd still make way for a wheelchair user.

Using it as a support does not mean they can’t get off the bus at wait. If there are two pushchairs waiting get on and only one can fold then the disabled parent wins over the one who can fold and take spaces until it might be needed for wheelchair.

Millions more prams than wheelchairs. A wheelchair user will face this on nearly every bus. A parent with pram once in blue moon.

As many have pointed out, it's not a question of wheelchair users should have priority. Wheelchair users do have priority and anyone who refuses to recognise that is a complete idiot.

Worth bearing in mind though that, at least outside London, regular users of public transport especially buses tend to be from lower-income groups (both wheelchair users and low-income families). Having a low income puts you under increased stress, removes alternatives and makes it more difficult to juggle responsibilities. Hence the desperate mum refusing to get off the bus since she's late to pick up her kids from school after work vs. the wheelchair user trying to get into town to do their shopping. Those with more money can avoid these issues. Well-off parents will load their children and shopping into their comfortable cars and drive most places.

The answer of course is enforced priority for wheelchairs combined with better public transport for everyone.

what buses are you lot getting on? in nottingham there is enough space on buses for there to me 1 pushchair and 1 wheelchair or 3 pushchairs in the space.

I will always fold my pushchair for a disabled passenger as long as my baby can hold their head up and their body steady while I hold the pushchair down with one hand as well as hold them in my other hand. or I will get off the bus if my baby cant do that and its nice weather, I've done it many times. but I'm sorry if I'm out with a newborn baby and the weather is bad, I cant risk my baby getting sick to give my space on the bus to somebody else, as much as that makes me a arsehole I cant put my childs health at risk. my priority is my babies health.

but tbh, the biggest problem around here is old people refusing to move their shopping trolley things out of the pushchair/wheelchair bays.