. . . to expect a bit more help in children's ward?

[TiredStressedFrustrated]

DD (18 months) was admitted to hospital yesterday (sent to A&E by GP due to fast, shallow breathing and high heart rate, but dehydrated, all as a result of upper respiratory tract infection and not being able to keep any fluids/food/calpol down). Since we've been here, I've been really dismayed at how hands-off everyone is - I've been handed a syringe and told to get eight syringes of water into DD every hour overnight, I was handed a plastic cup and told to get a pee sample (this has proved impossible, the tiny pee that she did I missed and it was absorbed into her nappy, even when she threw up everywhere, housekeeping handed me a pack of wipes and said "are you okay cleaning the floor up with these?" - this is while I was holding a very upset toddler covered in vomit.

Now don't get me wrong - DD is my responsibility and of course I want to look after her, clean up after her etc. It just feels like there's no support from the hospital staff at all - they just hand you the equipment for whatever needs doing and expect you to do it all, whilst they dip in and out and take obs every few hours.

Is this normal? I'm struggling to get DD to take the syringes but they just say "oh dear . . . " I haven't been able to get a urine sample but they tell me really need it so keep trying . . . I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired and stressed but I feel like we're just muddling through ourselves and we may as well be at home

Oh love, I’ve been you.

With the wee, the best thing is to put a pot between your legs on your lap and sit her on it, resign yourself to it and just keep gently stringing the water in whilst she’s drowsy. It was the only way I could do it

As a children’s nurse I can see it from both sides.

We are so understaffed to the point it doesn’t feel safe.

We can’t give the care we want to give, and care that the family deserves because we simply don’t have enough time.

Some days I run around for 13.5 hours and still feel like I haven’t accomplished anything.

Most days we don’t get at least one of our breaks, so we get a 20-25 minute break in all that time.

We spend our times chasing our tails and we know what we do isn’t good enough, but we absolutely do the best we can.

The other day there were 3 nurses to 18 patients because of how poorly staffed we are. We also have a high dependency unit attached to the main ward which allows for another 7 patients on top of the 18 we can fit on the ward. The HDU patients should be nursed two patients to 1 nurse but it’s very rare that can happen and we just have to do the best we can.

In the hospital I work in we have a children’s A&E and three wards....- and it’s the same in every department. We are all exhausted, overworked and on our knees.

But that’s just the way it is.

Basic kindness is obviously expected but sometimes, we are trying to deal with one patient whilst thinking of the other 5 sick babies who also need our attention...it’s a really, difficult situation. Priorities have to be made, me make the judgement call of what child to attend to first and sometimes the stress and pressure makes it very hard to come across as kind and pleasant.....not because we don’t want to be, being kind is generally at the core of all nurses, but generally all we are thinking about is all the other jobs we need to do.

And this is between dealing with angry parents because we don’t get to their child quick enough, because we are late with medications, dealing with directions giving us more jobs to do on top of our already ridiculously long lists and dealing with the phones constantly ringing.

There is just no let up.

We barely drink or eat because there just isn’t time. People joke that nurses go 15 hours without a wee, but it’s true.

I once turned up to work at 7.30am and got my ‘lunch’ at 6pm. So that’s 10.5 hours of running around like a maniac without any food inside me.

It’s a really, really shit situation and most days we go home feeling shit about ourselves because we know we haven’t given the care we want to.

But we keep going back because we want to help the children and we want to support families....but sadly the pressures of the NHS mean we usually can’t.

I am not speaking for all hospitals here, and all nurses, just explaining how it is on my ward.

As a parent, you are not happy with the situation, but I’m pretty sure the nurses aren’t either.

@DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou I understood what you were saying!

Gosh, this is totally not my experience.
DS was around this age and in for breathing.
All urine tests were done with a pad. What is this nonsense of trying to collect in a pot from a child in nappies and not telling you there are pads.
They watched him when I went to the loo/to get food, I only had to ask.
They suggested putting salt in his food to get him to drink. But if she's not eating they should be suggesting squash or ice or lollies.
Never had to clean up or change a bed. This is all pre COVID but surely it's better for you to get the child cleaned and them to clean up vomit properly not half heartedly.

I hope you daughter improves, sending you a lot of love.

We have a chronically understaffed and decimated NHS. This does not surprise me in the least. I’d pay double taxes for something better.

What is this nonsense of trying to collect in a pot from a child in nappies and not telling you there are pads.

A ‘clean catch’ sample is far superior in terms of checking for urine infections than catching it in a urine bag.

We do use urine bags on our ward but only as a last resort because we know the results can be contaminated by outside factors and cause bacteria to be introduced to the sample, as opposed to the bacteria actually being present in the urine due to infection.

If we do use a urine bag we can do a very basic test on the ward to identify any infection markers in the urine, and if there are any present we then have to go back to trying to obtain a clean catch sample with the use of caching it in a pot which we then send to the Labs.

'As a parent, you are not happy with the situation, but I’m pretty sure the nurses aren’t either'

Surely, as a nurse, you can see that expecting a parent to give a poorly child oral fluids hourly overnight is unreasonable? If a child is that dehydrated then the obvious answer is an IVT, sleep is vital for both poorly dc and a stressed, exhausted parent. Imagine if you were ill and a nurse kept waking you up every hour to make your drink a glass of water, it is utter madness.

I understand what you're saying about being busy etc etc but kindness takes seconds. She is not expecting someone to sit with her for an hour to hold her hand.

Surely, as a nurse, you can see that expecting a parent to give a poorly child oral fluids hourly overnight is unreasonable? If a child is that dehydrated then the obvious answer is an IVT, sleep is vital for both poorly dc and a stressed, exhausted parent. Imagine if you were ill and a nurse kept waking you up every hour to make your drink a glass of water, it is utter madness.

I 100% agree with this - it is madness. And I death with this exact problem on my last shift.

However, if the doctor doesn’t want to listen (which they genuinely don’t want to listen to nurses) and they will not cannulate the child then I’m not sure where you think that leaves nurses?

Most doctors will want to try syringe feeding first because of the negatives of cannulation and administration of IV fluids. I guess they have their protocols to follow.

But no matter how much we fight for IV fluids, it’s the doctors that make that decision, not the nurses.

'But no matter how much we fight for IV fluids, it’s the doctors that make that decision, not the nurses'

Yes and of course encouraging oral fluids during the day is preferable to ivt. If it were me I'd remind the dr of the plethora of evidence supporting the need for sleep with ill patients then tell them to put a cannula in and prescribe fluids. Waking a sick dc hourly is ridiculous.

'We have a chronically understaffed and decimated NHS. This does not surprise me in the least. I’d pay double taxes for something better'

No, we don't. We have some staff that are better at time management than others. When I was a patient once my room was right next to the office, I could hear them chatting all day long (and loudly all night long). Yes they'd then go and 'do obs' or 'do the dressings' or doctors rounds but the majority of their day was nurse station bound with patient care seemingly an inconvenient interruption. Obviously not the case everywhere but ime I've had more kindness from the cleaning staff than some staff nurses. I have a lot of respect for hcps who put their patient and relatives first, who manage their time brilliantly but that certainly is not all or even most of them.

If it were me I'd remind the dr of the plethora of evidence supporting the need for sleep with ill patients then tell them to put a cannula in and prescribe fluids. Waking a sick dc hourly is ridiculous.

Thank you for that tip - after all, it’s not like me and all my colleagues have tried that approach 100 times over.

The NHS is a shit show, the nurses are all overworked, stressed and exhausted, the doctors are the one who prescribe all the care and it’s still the nurses who are at fault.

It’s always the nurses who are the bad guys.

Like many other posters have said, it’s enough to make you want to leave the job.

My daughters 2 week old son was admitted and her experience was the same.
She was exhausted as they woke her every hour to ask her to hold the thermometer or get a urine sample ect ect.
After a week I sent her home to recover from infected stitches and seek her own medical intervention as it was making her poorly and I stayed with my grandson for a few days.
It was before covid so no excuses there but his hospital admission was truly horrendous.

'It’s always the nurses who are the bad guys.'

No it's the shit, lazy nurses who are the bad guys and if a nurse can't see the stressed and exhausted parent of an 18mth old needs a teeny bit of support and kindness they are in the wrong job. Ditto a Dr who thinks waking a sick dc hourly because they cba to put a cannula in is a good idea.

I have seen brilliant caring hcps doing their job competently and with empathy, not moaning about how busy they are whilst sat at the nurses station. It's the crap ones I'm talking about not the good ones.

You shouldn't have been asked to clear up. Usually better for parents to do the fluid challenge, as the child is more relaxed. But you can ask for help.
For those saying a pad or a wee bag for the sample. They don't work as they get contaminated too easily. So the only option is to sit with a pot and catch it. (Paeds nurse)

God, this thread is absolutely fucking vile.

@ThornAmongstRoses stop wasting your time on these people, it’s not worth it.

Anyone who thinks it’s hard work trying to give their kid a drink hourly, try spending your night sat up watching so they don’t pull a cannula out.

I spent 10 days in hospital with my little boy aged 2. The nurses were amazing in the main. I looked after my little boy exactly as I would at home, cleaning up sick, changing bed, fluids etc. That is what I would have done at home I expected to do the same at hospital, the difference was that I knew I had medical help at hand if he deteriorated and he could have fairly immediate assistance if he needed it.That was the difference from sitting beside his bed at home feeling terrified and alone.
There was the odd nurse who wasn’t very nice and one who was very negative about me still breastfeeding which upset me when my little boy was so frightened and upset. There was lots of nights at first when they were doing two different sets of obs half an hour apart every night rather than doing all the obs together and only waking him half the time. I tried asking the nurses who said they couldn’t change it so in the end asked the consultant who changed it immediately.
There were times when I could have got very frustrated and angry because of the tremendous exhaustion but I used to say to myself that yelling at anyone was unlikely to improve people’s attitude towards helping me so I bit my tongue for the benefit of my child.

Also if you think how long it takes if you are at home to get a referral for a scan, or blood tests or to see an consultant the fact that in hospital you can get them all in one day, free of charge seemed a miracle to me after being so worried for so long.

We are unfortunately frequent flyers at hospital with DS with his breathing, thankfully now he has a preventer inhaler it's less frequent, but I empathise and its bloody stressful. Our experiences have been mixed really and try my best to go with the flow, overnight especially have offered to hold the nebuliser mask for example once it's set up, and other times they've said you need sleep so they've done it all. I guess it depends on a lot of factors, they might be crap and lazy, but more than likely they're run off their feet. Not that it helps you of course, can you prioritise what you are finding most stressful and ask if they can help support that and do the rest?

You do the rest the last bit meant to say!

I think of you are there 24/7, then asking you to push fluids hourly all through night is unreasonable. You need to get some sleep and the staff there will have had a daytime sleep and will be going home to nap, whereas you still need to function next day. Catching a clean irons sample is a nightmare and even if they have the little bags that stick around the genially, my daughter invariably manage to contaminate nappy with poo too which made sample unusable. I feel your pain. Hopefully it will only be another day or so.

You need to get some sleep and the staff there will have had a daytime sleep and will be going home to nap

A sleep in the day + going home to nap?

When do you think this going home to nap happens?

OP - I hope your DD is feeling better today

Exactly....Just bloody ask!! Pop your head out of the door....ask can someone sit with your child while you get food.
I've spent far too many nights on many different childrens wards due to having a severely disabled child.
Usually they will require a clean catch and yes it is a pain in the arse.... giving fluids is a pain in the arse too but if you were home its exactly what you'd be doing.
Of course there is no continuity...nurses need to sleep and see thier families too...you'll find if you are there long enough you'll see the same nurses.
It is exhausting being in hospital, but there are probably many children much more poorly than your daughter!!!
You as the parent need to take control...they won't actually give paracetamol unless you ask or they may give after obs if they have a fever!!! I take my own thermometer into hospital now as I recognise when my sons temperature is rising.
I hope your DD feels much better very soon....sorry if I sound harsh but this is just the reality of a busy childrens ward.

So sorry op that sounds terrible. But entirely consistent with the shocking care I’ve experienced and witnessed from hospitals over the last few years (pre Covid)

I take my own thermometer into hospital now as I recognise when my sons temperature is rising.

That's quite basic obs, they should be doing those and monitoring them to be fair if they deem it necessary. Quite worrying if they don't.

@Noterook

I take my own thermometer into hospital now as I recognise when my sons temperature is rising.

That's quite basic obs, they should be doing those and monitoring them to be fair if they deem it necessary. Quite worrying if they don't.

My child is very complex.....

Unless you spend lots of time in these places you can never understand how difficult things are for nursing staff.
Stick your head out the door and shout!
If they don't know you haven't eaten then they cannot help....if you want help ask for it !!
Being in a children's ward is never easy